Intro: [00:00:00] Welcome to the Stacey Salyer Show, the podcast for property management leaders ready to think bigger about growth. I'm Stacey Salyer and the only acquisition strategist in this industry who sat on all sides of the m and a table. I've been the buyer acquiring a 370 door competitor during COVID using seller financing.
I've been the seller building and exiting a seven figure business. And I've been the corporate evaluator as director of acquisitions, assessing over hundreds of companies nationally. That means I know exactly what you're thinking, what you're missing, and what actually works when it comes to buying and integrating in this space.
On this show, we dig into acquisitions as a real business tool. Not luck, not someday. You'll learn positioning, strategy, numbers, and integration from someone who's actually done it all. Let's go.
Stacey Salyer: Today, I have one of my [00:01:00] favorite property management friends on. He is all about sales in property management, and we're gonna talk about why that's so important, whether you're buying a property management company or selling a property management company, why it matters if you have a BDM or if you don't. Maybe we'll debate a little bit. Who knows? It'll be a great show. So I wanna welcome my friend Jeremy Pound with RentScale.
Jeremy Pound: Thanks, Stacey. It's great to be here.
Stacey Salyer: Yeah. It's awesome to have you on, so thanks so much for coming on. So,
Well, let's just dive in. You wanna tell a little bit about kind of what RentScale does and, and maybe a little bit why it's, you know, important?
Jeremy Pound: Yeah, we love our residential property management companies. That's all we serve here at RentScale. So for the last seven, eight years, we've just been helping residential property management companies scale their door count. So we help them by getting clear on who their ideal client is, basically building out a sales department in their company so that they actually know the criteria for the clients that they want, and they know how to sell [00:02:00] the same way and the best way every single time, all the way up to hiring their sales team, their business development managers, learning how to do business development, whether they wanna do that as their own as the business owner, or they wanna actually finally get themselves out of sales and pass that off to somebody else.
And then, of course, we coach the largest community of property management sales professionals in the US and I believe Canada as well. So at any given time we are managing around a hundred property management companies' sales professionals, teaching them ways
to do new things, masterminding with them, and helping them grow.
So just like you, we're about growth. We just do it a different way.
Stacey Salyer: Yeah. No, I love it. Well, I think... Well, that's why I wanted to have you on. I
think both funnels are very important. And yeah, let's kind of dive into the whole BDM role, 'cause I feel like, I mean, I've been in the industry for over
20 years, and I feel like maybe the last 10 years, kind of that whole BDM thing.
And for those of you who might be new to property management, BDM means business development manager. Not something else weird, 'cause
it's just [00:03:00] kind of a weird acronym I feel like.
Jeremy Pound: We get, we get a lot of funny jokes when we invite people in and, and they were like, "BDM?" And they were like, "What?"
Stacey Salyer: I know, right?
I know.
So, it's not that kind of show, people Sorry. But, yeah, tell me a little
bit more, like the... Is that accurate? I mean, is it k- become more like
Jeremy Pound: You nailed it. Stacey, I, I, I love this question 'cause you're absolutely right. So, RentScale exists because I was doing this for other industries, other service companies- I thought I had a niche business because I only worked with service companies. Little did I know how niche you could get when Jordan Moeller found me from LeadSimple.
So if you're a LeadSimple user or, you know, just a, a fan of the thought leadership that Jordan's done for the industry. About eight years ago, he approached me and he said, "Hey, you help service companies sell. I built a CRM for a company that doesn't focus on sales." He's like, "We gotta teach these people how to sell."
That's literally the oversimplification, but the impetus for why [00:04:00] RentScale exists. And so you're absolutely right. and I, I find that very funny because if you look left and right at every other business in America, you start a company, you have a sales function, you have a marketing function, you have an operations function.
These are normal things. But property management definitely started as a craft. It was... By the way, I say all the time, property management is just a name we all made up so we can tell people what we do at a cocktail party, 'cause it- it's insane what we do, right? you're doing tax services, real estate marketing services, tenant services, maintenance services.
Property management is a bundle that is unbelievably more complicated than most businesses. So, you know, here's my little history of property management. I just think everybody was so dialed in on getting the craft perfected, and there was so much need for it, that if you were the only guy in town that put up your shingle like people would call because there was nobody doing it, you know?
And then as the industry matured, we catch up with the rest of business and people say, "You know what? I kind of have to market, and I kind of have to sell, and I [00:05:00] have to do these things." And so, yes, in the last decade,
I just feel like we've gone from crawling to walking to now we're running as an organization, without a doubt.
Stacey Salyer: Yeah, I love that.
Well, I think yeah, and I've seen it morph into a whole new sector in the business world. I mean, 'cause really when I got into it in '04, I was a portfolio
manager, so I was the, the all the uniform thing, right? I did my own sales, I did my own marketing, I did whatever, all the things.
But I love that you've been able to grow
this whole new category. And that's really even my category. You know, I think there's some people out there that are like, "Oh, Stacey's teaching acquisitions," and she's saying, "Oh no, you shouldn't have a BDM." That's actually not right. That's actually incorrect. I believe I'm creating another category of people who are thinking beyond, right? Because that's what we
did 10 years ago of, okay, we're gonna create this new category of you, you need to have sales and marketing. And then I'm coming here in 2026 saying, "Hey, well you, yes, [00:06:00] you have that, but you also need to have now an acquisition funnel too," right?
Jeremy Pound: A- and let me just say, Aya, so the more we're hanging out, and the more I'm seeing what you're doing, and the more I'm seeing my clients, like you s- I love the when boomers retire, you acquire. I mean, just let's also think about it from a non-selfish standpoint- when a client trusts you to manage their property, there's nothing worse in the world than having to leave one property manager and go to another, or find out that you thought you had continuity and you don't, or you thought it was all taken care of and the rug got pulled out from under you.
So I mean, we provide such a important service to the clients that I love that you're helping... When people say, "Look, I just am not the best person to run this company anymore. I'm fatigued, I'm tired, I want to do something else." Or when somebody's really in the game and they're, they're elevating, they're building all the systems and they say, "Look, let me take over your 100 doors."
I think this is all just good for the consumer, right? I, so I just love that because trust me, [00:07:00] I, I, I think anyone on this call that has their own rental properties can a- a- admit to the last thing you want to get a, is an email or a call on a Tuesday afternoon saying
discontinuing management services.
That creates a whole
set of problems that nobody ever wants to hear about.
Stacey Salyer: Yeah, absolutely. So, well, take me inside a little bit as far as you know, the biz dev manager. I mean, I, I get to be part of your community, which is awesome. I get to be an advisor inside there. You guys do a great job. But what are you seeing--
like what are the top three mistakes the average property management company is making right now in regard to like their sales funnel?
Jeremy Pound: Well, you told me this was only an hour podcast, so I don't know if we can go through that. No. No, it, it's just
Stacey Salyer: is the top
Jeremy Pound: Yeah. I mean, the, you know, the real, the real punchline there is honestly, the, the, the real way to develop business for property management is a little bit counterintuitive. And so like you as a portfolio manager, you say, "Well, I'm a good manager, and so therefore, I should just be able to tell people what I do and I can [00:08:00] sell."
And that does work to a certain extent, but that's really hard to scale and that's really exhausting, right? And then what's gonna end up happening is if you're like a lot of our property management friends who are in the property management role or the owner role you're gonna start to you know, roll your eyes or, or get a little frustrated when the phone rings and it's not a client, it's not a number you're used to, and you're like, "Here we go again."
So what's great about that is there is a number of people out there and a personality type who that's all they want to do. They would feel the same way. They'd feel the same discomfort when they've got to talk to the same client over and over again. They want to talk to new people. They wanna share the good news about the industry and explain to people.
They want to educate. They geek out on, you know, where the market is going and how the real estate industry is, and they love helping people on the journey of real estate investing. So, you know, just that's the first point I want to make is as we've done this over and over again, when we talk to people, they, you know, they just say the owner doesn't want to talk to [00:09:00] somebody that's not the owner of the property management company.
And then the owner of the property management company says nobody wants to come work for a property management company and do sales, right? Wouldn't they be a real estate agent and just go rake in the big bucks? Well, no, it's really not the case. There are tons of people out there that are fascinated in real estate investing and real estate that don't geek out about pretty kitchens and bathrooms, that don't want to spend their Saturdays at open houses, that, you know, want more of a nine-to-five, more of a corporate job.
They love the numbers of real estate, right? So a lot of people that get into property management can really relate to that. So that's the first thing I want to say is open your mind to it, and that's why we love our community, and we want people to get around other people because then all of a sudden, expand your mindset from, "This would never work, and nobody wants to do this," to, "Wow, there's actually a person out there that is excited about this job."
And that's one of the things we're really excited about, Stacey, is hired over four hundred of these business development [00:10:00] managers. We're working with, you know, a hundred at any given time. A lot of these people have been in the business for years, and they love it. we've had BDMs buy their company.
It's happened more than once. Yes. So they're in the business for years, you know, maybe, you know, five, six, seven years, and somebody does want to sell. And instead of calling Stacey, they say, "Well, I got a BDM." They're really ambitious, and they, they want to do this thing, and they take it over. So I would say that's the biggest thing I want to just say is there are people who are perfect for this that want to do it, and they want to wake up every day from nine to five or nine to nine, depending on the person, and they just want to grow your business, right?
And that's such a relief for people because when you're the owner and you're juggling all the plates, right? You're wearing all the hats, and you're doing everything, growing the business sounds important, but your energy is just not allowing
you the time to do it. So that's the, that's the first point I
really wanted to share.
Stacey Salyer: Yeah. Yeah. Well, and I think that kind of goes to the leadership of the business [00:11:00] owner, and I think that that is where... You know, a lot of times you know, people start a property management company. Well, they usually start it one of three ways, but a lot of times it's, you know, they've been in real estate, they just start a PMC or maybe they own some rentals and they, they start one. They don't really start it necessarily with intention, but I feel as a leader, if you can really work on your leadership development and get to that point of, hey, like this is actually a real business, it's an asset, and if I bring on that person that can help me grow it, I'm actually growing an asset.
It's, it's not really like a negative you know, I'm just like paying a salary and payroll. And then, you know, even going a step further of hey, now I can expand my mindset and
have a whole nother funnel just go out and acquire, like side by side, do both funnels. I mean, that's really building a huge asset. So as far as that goes, like I'm assuming most of the people that come to you have moved into that new identity of that, that true leader and they're ready to, you know, expand their mindset and expand their team. But as [00:12:00] far as the owner that just can't give it up. I mean, I've got friends that
identify that way where they're like, they're like, "No, I'm the business owner and I have to
bring on every single property." what advice would you give to them?
Jeremy Pound: this is the real conversation. I love that. So I wanna really comment on what you started that question with, is like most of the people that hire us have probably moved on to that new level of leadership. No, quite the contrary. They're being dragged kicking and screaming into it because of stress, because of that. Because they know a Stacey, and they know somebody else who's done it, and they said, "Okay, every time I get together and share my woes with my NARPM friends, they keep holding up a mirror and being like, 'You're still doing all the sales.'" and other times they just say, "I- I'm not good at this," and they, they reflect and they say, "All right, if I get five calls, and four are prospective owners and one is a client, somehow I end up spending all my time on the one owner that is a client, and I gotta...
I start being honest with myself." [00:13:00] And, and that's like a real story that somebody's told me. So what's really cool about that, you know, when you think about some of our mutual friends, I won't name any names, but I've watched them. They've been clients for six, seven years. I've watched them really develop into those leaders because now they've got not just a business development manager, which is a department, they've got a maintenance manager, and they're...
They used to do everything themselves. Now they're showing up, and they're using their energy, which I think is the greatest skill in business, which is that bill- that ability to coordinate and to marshal resources and to have a vision and get people to cooperate together and do things. So I did just wanna say that because I've been noticing that a lot lately.
People that are five, six years into this, I just think through where they were, exactly what you were saying, which is like, "Oh gosh, I gotta do everything. I can't let go of that." And then they don't just show up one day with this new identity, but they just start doing it, and then that identity shows up, and it's really cool because then I [00:14:00] send them over as references.
And it's really funny how our mind works. Five years later, they can't even remember what it was like to have those fears and those, you know, that thinking, 'cause the thinking's expanded so much. So that's definitely something that I've seen, for sure. And then, you know, just specifically My tip on this or my thought on this is always about a business owner is really about adding the most value for your clients.
Nothing ever goes wrong by constantly trying to deliver more value. It, it's pretty hard to convince me, and trust me, it wasn't, I wasn't always there, like back in the day. But it's pretty hard to convince me that, you know, a good team with the right systems, that's repeatable, with the economies of scale of a property management company, is gonna deliver more value to their clients than a single individual who just does it all, knows it all, but is the single point of failure, right? If you're sick that day, something comes across your desk that you can't figure out and you don't have enough time to do it, if [00:15:00] you're overwhelmed. So my, my recommendation on this is it's really coming back to, like, how much value am I adding to my customer?
Which means I'll keep them longer, which means I might be able to charge a little bit more, which means I might be more attractive if somebody wants to acquire my portfolio. Which also means that if I acquire your portfolio, I'm gonna immediately add value to your clients and I'm not gonna churn them.
If it all comes back to, how do I be more valuable to my client, it's pretty hard to convince me that it's not a coordinated team with the right systems built together, the right people, everybody kind of in their sweet spot. And the last thing I'll say on that, which makes me chuckle, is the real origin story of why I even do what I do is because I, I have been...
You know, this is my third successful business, so there's probably thirty businesses in between there. I've been a self-supported entrepreneur for twenty-six years three major companies, and I was always the rainmaker until the second one, and that's what I did. And so what's interesting is just like the property manager has the [00:16:00] identity that I gotta do everything, my identity was "If I'm not doing sales what value am I adding to the company?"
And that was such a small, limited mindset, you know? And I kinda, like everybody, I called it The Jeremy Show. Everybody loved when client came to the meeting and we had the conference room and Jeremy shows up, his cowboy guns, and he sells the client, you know? That was like my identity. And then, I don't know, I found a way, created systems, and I hired salespeople that were way better than me and I got to work on the product and I got to innovate and I
got to coach and lead the team. It's a way better lifestyle when it's not
all dependent on you
Stacey Salyer: Yeah. No, I love that. That's cool. Well, thanks for sharing even part of your journey. That's really cool. So I will say, and we can kind of talk a little bit about acquisitions, and I know
you have some clients that even their BDM has helped them do some acquisition. I think there's a big misconception out there that a company only looks good based on numbers Right.
I mean, well, number one, that's like the number one thing you see on Facebook, right? People are like: "Oh, there's a [00:17:00] 200-door, you know, portfolio that I, you know, is for sale. How much should I pay?" That's like my favorite. I'm like, "What?" Like you cannot even determine that with just that amount of information. I think the, misconception is, is that it just is matters about dollars, right? And then, you know, maybe some processes here and there. But I do believe, I mean, even when we, when I was doing acquisitions on a national level those companies that had a whole built out like sales division with the BDM and all the processes and maybe even luckily some marketing they went for a higher dollar amount. But going with that, I know some people have asked me like: "Well, do you think a BDM can help acquire?" And so do you wanna sh-share maybe a story or two of some of
Jeremy Pound: Yeah, 100%. I mean, as you know, and I'm speaking to the choir here, but I'm saying it for the listeners 'cause I've learned this myself, you'd be shocked at how much opportunity there is out there. When [00:18:00] you think about portfolios, which I'm air quoting if you're listening just a set of a dozen doors, two dozen doors, you know, five dozen doors managed by a real estate agent, managed by a property manager who left the company and took their favorite client.
They... It's just they're out there, right? This is... These are the these are the the little gold just below the surface. And so, you know, when you think about a BDM, you are just basically magnifying the reach and the audience that you have out in the marketplace. So maybe this BDM's going out to BNI meetings Maybe they're on the phone with real estate agents.
And when you're having conversations about property management at B&I meetings, at real estate offices, when you're talking to owners, I mean, you are just basically putting more lines in the water, not to mix too many analogies here, but you're just putting more lines in the water. That's all you're doing.
And so maybe, like one of our fun clients, which you got to meet Robert. We love Robert. You know, during COVID, he made the decision. He said, [00:19:00] "Okay, I, I, I'm still working full-time. I've got this property management company." I think he was several dozen doors. He's "You know, I gotta decide, am I going all in on this thing, or am I just gonna let it go?"
Right? Which, by the way, another piece of gold out in the market. How many people are thinking what Robert's thinking? He would just as likely sold the business. So, COVID hits. He says, "I'm gonna commit." You know, money was flowing. We all remember the champagne and cocaine days of PPP and all those things like that.
And so he's "All right, I'm gonna get a loan. I'm gonna hire a BDM," and we worked with him, and he said, "My goal is to close a hundred doors. I'm so happy with this. You bring a-- bring this in. That's gonna triple the size of my company." Well, Leslie goes out to B&I. She stands up two weeks in a row, her second meeting.
a She tells people what property management is. Real estate agent walks up, says, "My real estate agent friend wants to sell her portfolio. She has a hundred doors." And this was the fastest close in the world. It was probably because of COVID and all the uncertainty. And Robert called us, and he said, "Jeremy, we're gonna have [00:20:00] to raise our goal because Leslie just found me a hundred doors."
They had an amazing opportunity, bought it. But then, you know, that's a pretty grand one. More often than not, we just find people, and they say, "You know what? I don't want to refer you business, but I have nine doors that I'm kind of managing, and I'm not doing a very good job, and I just want to-- Like, would you buy these from me?"
And you look like a savior when you say, "I would like to acquire your doors," right? And then it comes in. I'm sure you see that all the time. So that-- Just think of your BDM as more lines in the water out in your market. In other markets, you can go so as sophisticated as actually having your BDM call other markets if you're thinking about launching.
But just putting them in your market
is just amazing about surface area and finding more people
Stacey Salyer: Oh, yeah. Yeah. I mean, two is always better
than one. And, you know, getting out there and I'm, I'm assuming you know, it sounds like you train the BDMs to get out
and be involved in different groups and network and actually get out there. And then the same if the business owner's doing that too.
I [00:21:00] mean, my gosh, you know, two people, that's amazing because then they can tag team, they can be in different groups. And, and to your point, you know, I think a lot of times
people hear the word acquisition and they always think "Oh, 300 doors, 400 doors." Like that's, that's the big thing. But that really, yes, of course, that would be amazing. But the 20-door little portfolio, the 50-door, the 10-door, it all adds up, I mean, completely. And there's nothing wrong with having those conversations. I guarantee everybody listening to this show, there is at least one real estate agent in your market, probably 10 or more, that are managing some doors. They're probably kind of shitty at it, to be quite honest, because they don't have the processes and systems. They started doing it for friends or family, and they would love to offload it for some money and then future referrals, right? I mean,
Jeremy Pound: Yes.
Stacey Salyer: yeah.
Jeremy Pound: let's just pause on that for a second. Imagine you're a real estate agent, and you take on a door or two for a [00:22:00] friend or a great client, and then they give you a referral for two more, and then that turns into five more, and you don't have the systems and the software that we have. You don't have NARPM, you don't have the economies of scale, you don't know the right maintenance people, and you're managing eleven properties.
You're gonna wake up in some weird version of hell one day and be like, "Take this off of my plate," right? Just imagine that. It just-- property management is hard when we have all the things that we have as professionals. Imagine trying to do that part-time. It just seems crazy to me. So I got a question for you, Stacey, 'cause I wanna a- I don't know if this is true, but I have a theory that, 'cause you say acquisitions, you're like, people think acquisitions, you know, you start thinking of guys in blue and white dress shirts around a table, like running over spreadsheets. W-would-- Is my assumption right that a twelve-door is probably gonna sell for less per door than a hundred-door portfolio?
Like, Is there advantages to buying little
onesies and Tuesdays? Do they sell for less, or is that not [00:23:00] really true?
Stacey Salyer: Mm. I mean, I would say you're probably correct,
but for the reason of, I mean, a 12-door portfolio is probably not gonna be like PMAC, then it's gonna be basic, like just probably a basic management agreement. And it's also just very different. I mean, you're just literally buying like some contracts. So probably, yes.
Jeremy Pound: Yeah, so I guess I'm saying there's a little bit of a arbitrage opportunity there. If you can get lucky enough to find these dozen-door portfolios versus somebody who's "I've spent five years building this portfolio. It's my identity, it's my baby," right? As you talk about with your term. I need, I need like a big exit if I'm gonna move on for this.
I guess I'm wondering, I don't think there'd be the same emotional pull for the guy who just ended up with 12 doors and is like, "Get this off my plate. You're gonna write me a check. I'll take a TGI Fridays gift card and, you know, some beer, and you can take this thing." So that's just what I'm wondering
if there's like more emotional baggage.
Stacey Salyer: Oh yeah, the [00:24:00] emotion probably a lot less emotion for sure for the, the smaller ones. But it also kind of depends. I would say,
well, generally like the boomer business, it's probably gonna be more emotional. And again, I'm generalizing, but those that have ran it like a job for themselves because they, that is their identity, they're literally wrapped up in
it. Whereas like when I sold mine to Pure, it was no longer my baby. Now, when I started my business, and I've sent out some emails about this as well and shared my story, I did call it my fourth child. And then I learned over time like, no, it's not really a child, it's not a baby. It's an asset that I'm building.
And then once I, you know, moved into that, it made a world of difference. cause people were like, "Oh my gosh, are you so sad that you sold?" do you have regrets or do you..." I'm like, "No," because it was literally an asset. I mean, I was making a strategic move in my life at the time, and I... Some really cool strategy with the, you know, the selling it and
it's like, "No. [00:25:00] Nope, I'm good."
Jeremy Pound: it's really true, like it's important to know that our businesses are our identities sometimes, and I think that's a really good piece-- awareness piece if you're going into an offer. Because then I'd start being like... I'd start visualizing the great future your owners is, are gonna have and the legacy you've built and how it's gonna live on.
So I think that's worth like appreciating that some-- You know, we're all business owners. RentScale is my baby sometimes, right or wrong, and I'd wanna know if I passed it on that my clients were taken care of and that the work was going to be not stripped down, right? I think that's what we all fear.
We've all watched the Wall Street movies, and we think everyone's like private equity, and they're like, "I'm gonna fire your employees, and I'm gonna strip everything down to the bare bones and sell it, you know, for pennies on the dollar."
So yeah, everybody kinda wants to know that their trajectory is gonna get magnified, not stopped,
Stacey Salyer: Yeah. Yeah. Well, and I think that's maybe a little bit something like different that I do teach because I, again, I do teach more like, "Hey you know, you're in your [00:26:00] community, right? You wanna go acquire in your community, so build those relationships." And I did talk about this a little bit in your group when you had me in your community, was you know, you have an amazing ability as a business owner to go out and acquire and carry on the legacy of the person that you're buying that business from. So it is very different than doing like acquisitions on a national level. And even, even when I sold to Pure, really nothing changed. I mean, my entire team stayed on.
I mean, they used my processes. We actually used my company name for quite some time. And that was really cool. I mean, eventually kind of got all absorbed, and that will eventually happen too, and even in the smaller ones, in the, a smaller company. But at the same time, how cool is it that you could maybe help that
boomer carry on their legacy and be the really good person to, to take that on and take good care of their clients and their residents? That's why I do teach people who are looking to acquire. It's really important that you look good as well as a business [00:27:00] owner.
So you should have, you know, good funnels like a BDM marketing department. You should have, you know, good Google reviews. You should have good processes because you're also selling yourself versus just, you know, going out and "Oh, just I'm gonna give you some money and you know, you're of course gonna wanna work with me."
It doesn't, it doesn't really work that way.
Jeremy Pound: Marketing applies to everything. That's just a life lesson and marketing just really applies to everything, right? Even if you're
the customer, it's better to be the chosen customer than the
not chosen one, and that's all marketing, right?
Stacey Salyer: Yeah. So I would love to talk about marketing for a minute if you don't mind,
because I think there's a lot of misconception in between what is sales and what is marketing. And I will
admit, when I owned my property management company, I really did not actually understand The, the two, it wasn't until I started this consulting business and doing strategy this way, I'm like, "Oh,
like copywriting is, that's a lot.
That's a whole job." And like the [00:28:00] social media and, you know, building a personal brand or building a brand and a business versus like spelling is very different. So do you do a lot of like teaching and training around that as well, or what does that look like?
Jeremy Pound: great awareness, Stacey. You're absolutely right. Marketing is, is huge. And you know, I love the Peter Drucker quote, and I'm a big believer in this real business value is all marketing and innovation, right? If you're marketing or you're innovating, you're doing the, the highest leverage stuff for your company.
Now I'm a sales coaching company. Notice that sales wasn't even in there. I actually think marketing is a higher value opportunity than sales The problem is, is it's much more complex and harder to do. So for us, you know, us mere mortals, right, that are running, you know, five six employee companies, we probably get more leverage out of just getting good at sales before we really focus on marketing.
But you're absolutely right. So marketing is an amazing thing. In fact, you know, my previous business was a marketing agency, and part of my sales pitch [00:29:00] was "Hire us because we're a marketing agency. I have SEO people, I have copywriting people, I have social media people, I have pay-per-click people, I have graphic designers I have direct mail people, and you're gonna go out there," and again, this was ten years ago, "and you're gonna hire one fifty thousand dollar employee and expect them to do all of those things."
talk about a recipe for disaster, right? And so they're like, "Ah, finally hired a marketing person, it's not working. I don't know why." Marketing is hard. It is very hard. It is... But it is absolutely amazing leverage for your company. But really at the end of the day, marketing is just saying things that attract the right people and getting them to talk to you, and then your sales team can do the rest.
Now, there are many businesses out there that don't ever need sales because their marketing is so good. They can do everything from total stranger to complete customer. But that really takes some amazing talent. So I would just say marketing means a lot of things. There's branding, there's lead gen, there's all these things.
But at the end of the day, [00:30:00] marketing for a small business should really be focused on generating leads. That's really what it should be. That's it. Just get people on the phone with you. That can mean total strangers coming in and saying, raising their hand, saying, "I'd like to know more about what you do."
Marketing can be getting other property managers to say, "Oh, you're acquiring. I'd like to have a conversation." Marketing is also getting your existing customers to come back to you and say, "I didn't know you also did X. Can you tell me about an additional service or buying an additional property with you?"
So I really think for, for the purpose of small business, 'cause you go out there and you watch YouTube on marketing, you are gonna get lost. You are gonna end up in some, you know, crazy zigzag and learn a million things, and everyone's gonna tell you you need funnels. Now it's all about technology and AI is running marketing and all these things.
No. I mean, marketing is just how do I enter the conversation that's already happening in my prospect's mind? How do I know what they're thinking? What terminology do they use? And how do I make them an offer that is worth interrupting their [00:31:00] day? We're so busy, we're bombarded by things. I think we underestimate how hard it is to get people to actually pay attention to us.
And so we think, "I need to make an offer that just basically describes what I do, and I'm so good at what I do and they need it, of course, they're gonna call me back." When in reality, you need something substantially different. You need something that sounds too good to be true To get somebody to actually call you back, right?
And this is why guarantees have been proliferated throughout property management the last ten years. I know we've been a big part of that. We try to create our clients with guarantees. Risk is so big in property management, the more you can guarantee that, and, you know, value, you just got... I just really want you to think whatever you think your message is ten out of ten to get your client to pay attention, in reality, in this noisy environment, you need to be, like, at a hundred out of ten, right?
You know, this is why we all celebrate the very simple offers that people make. You know, I think back about [00:32:00] Domino's Pizza, thirty minutes or the pizza's free. That was a substantial offer back in the day. And they, they literally launched a whole company on that, right? And then there's just a million other examples on that.
So I would say marketing is getting people to talk to you, and you gotta be way more sensational than you
think you do, and then you gotta be able to back it up, and that's what makes your
business work.
Stacey Salyer: Yeah. Yeah. No, I love that. So not the basic we collect rents.
Jeremy Pound: Yes, we manage properties like they're our own. I mean, I know that it's a great message, but I'm telling you, five hundred property management companies in, Stacey. You know, we had a database of all the websites that say we manage properties like they're our own. Meanwhile, the owners tells it to us, and they're just gleaming, smiling "What a great message," right?
And I'm like, "Yes, it is to you," but when you've heard it nine times
on the five people you talk to but you've still heard it nine times, it just dissipates. You know what I mean? So, yeah.
Stacey Salyer: Okay. So when you help a company hire a BDM, are [00:33:00] You also kinda helping them find their one or two gold pieces of things that they can put out there so that they are a little bit Right.
Jeremy Pound: So I think one of the unique things about RentScale is we won't even hire a medium for you until we help you build your sales department, and that includes your sales playbook. So yes, there are some great best practices. There are some amazing things that work for every property management company.
You know, future pacing, understanding when they need a tenant, working it back, asking for the business at the right time. You know, understanding what their needs are. These apply to all of our clients. However, we really do spend the time with every client to understand why should I choose you? We ask that question over and over again.
Why choose you? Really, why? So what? Who are you for? I don't think there's one best property manager in any market because some people are built to serve, serial investors. Some people are built to help aspiring investors who are getting off the ground. Some people are built [00:34:00] for accidental landlords.
Some people are built for the downtown apartments that all look the same and almost have the exact specs. Other people are built for the four walls and a backyard out of town. So we really spend the time to understand who they are. We write the playbook, and we will not hire for our clients a business development manager until we can say, "If you come with us, we're giving
you a proven playbook, and we're gonna show you how to win the business."
So we're big believers in that.
Stacey Salyer: Yeah. No, that's cool. So what is the average number of doors that.
a, like a property management company should be bringing on every month? Because I, I see out there all the time what's good, what's bad.
Jeremy Pound: You know, it's about your goals, you know. I, I hate to always give the proverbial, "It depends," but it is about your goals, right? Just like you know, Stacey, as a longtime owner like one of the benefits of being a business owner is doing life on your own terms, right? So we've got clients that are very happy to have 150 clients.
In fact, one of my favorite case studies was somebody [00:35:00] probably five years ago. They knew Jordan really well and he's like, "I don't understand why they haven't hired us yet 'cause she, trusts us for everything we do." And we talked to her and she's "I'm really happy we're at two hundred doors, but I really just wanna fire my worst one hundred clients."
And I said, "No problem. That's perfect. Let's hire a BDM for you, and let's literally every time you bring on a door at the new fee structure and the new requirements and the new processes, you get to fire a door." She loved that. And that actually worked really well for her, and she ended up selling, which was fantastic.
It wasn't Stacey, for anybody listening, but it was another client. But that's totally fine. Now I've got other clients, you know, and if they aren't adding 100 doors a year, they are calling me very upset. You know what I mean? That's just what it is. I will say that part of the equation here is if you want to attract a high quality business development manager, you need to be able to compensate them, right?
Sales talent is expensive. So I like to tell people, "Don't hire a [00:36:00] BDM if you're not comfortable bringing on at least 100 new doors a year. At least," right? Because that's going to allow us to offer them enough money to really grow. Now, if the business owner wants to keep doing sales, or you're in a market like some of our friends in Southern California and Ventura County, and your average rent is eight thousand dollars a month, you're probably happy with, you know, 40 new doors a year because the fee structure is insane.
So you get to decide, but I will say if you wanna hire a BDM, you should be ready to offer bringing on at least 100 doors. And then that's gonna allow us to create
structure for a comp model that's going to pull that sexy talent into your company.
Stacey Salyer: Yeah. No, that's awesome. And so I am curious before we go, I'm just curious. So when you guys are helping hire, are you doing like some sort of traits evaluation? Like I used to use Culture Index and there's DISC and all those, but are you using one of those when you're hiring so that you're bringing in that like super like rainmaker, I call him the stallion don't put me-- I'm not a pony. [00:37:00] I'm a stallion. I need to be able to run, right? Like that, that kind of
person. Are you using something like that?
Jeremy Pound: We sure are. One of the things that we, I think is a little different about RentScale, and I, I learned this eight or nine years ago, right about the time I was starting RentScale, 'cause I was hiring for other businesses, is I don't use it as purely a filter of yes or no, but what I use it is as this is the way this person will sell.
This is a, a person who is going to nurture the right people and be persistent over time. This is a person who's going to out-dial anybody else in, in, in any organization. They're gonna talk to three times as many people as anybody else. This is a person who is really gonna understand the subject matter expertise and really become an authority and just absolutely command attention from everybody.
So we do use a, a service like that. We love Culture Index. We actually use one that's kind of built for sales. But I will say one thing I've learned is we use it less as a filter, like you're good, [00:38:00] you're not good, to this is how you're gonna sell, and then we have a conversation with the owner about are you comfortable with a person who's gonna wanna know all the details?
Are you comfortable with a person who's gonna miss the details, but talk to three times as many people as everybody else, right? And then, you know, this is what's great about longevity and having great coaches. You know, I've got Jen and all these amazing people on my team. They're also gonna look you in the eye and be like, "You're gonna hate this person."
You know what I mean? You're just not gonna want them in your company even though they could be a good salesperson. And for most of us that are, you know, sub 10, a dozen employees, that actually kinda matters. So we actually take that into account
as well.
Stacey Salyer: Oh, that's cool. I love that. That's really cool. Yeah, I think-- Yeah, and I, I-- Like in acquisitions, I call that, you know, you have green, yellow, red flags. Like red doesn't
mean for sure no, it just means stop, take a look, have a conversation, and then proceed
Jeremy Pound: Put the spotlight on it. Ask a couple more questions.
Stacey Salyer: Yeah. And I, and I would agree too [00:39:00] regarding the traits
profiles. I strongly believe in them when I'm looking at hiring and helping clients hire and that kind of thing. But at the same time, you're right. I mean, this is basically how this person's gonna show up. So if that meets what you need and it meets your team culture, then that's cool. But if it doesn't, then you will hate them. Yeah,
Jeremy Pound: you will hate them. And so we, we spend a lot of time in being like, "Give it a shot." And by the way, we do offer a guarantee, so that's actually comes into the conversation where we're like, "If they don't work out and you did your best, we'll f- we'll replace them- But we're kind of telling you right now that we've seen this show before, and this is
what you're gonna-- you're gonna call me in 90 days, and you're gonna say X. and
sometimes we're right, you know?
Stacey Salyer: Yeah. Cool. Well, I know before we wrap up, I would love to know?
Just kind of like What works as far as getting new clients, like for a BDM? I mean, do people do mailers? Like what-- is there anything out there that you're like, "Yeah, no, this is insane. It doesn't work," [00:40:00] or, "This insanely does work," but people would think it doesn't?
Jeremy Pound: No, absolutely not. I'll, I'll say, you know, working with 100 clients at any given time, 500, 600 clients I keep thinking we gotta up our numbers 'cause it's gotta be more. We've been saying 500 for two years. But everything works if you work it. I've got clients crushing it with direct mail.
I've got clients crushing it with SEO. I've got clients crushing it with events. You, you know our friend Mark Ainley. He built this crazy podcast in Chicago. He's crushing it. It all works if you put enough effort into it and you do it. So that's one of the fun things for me that I've seen i- and I think it drives our clients mad because I think they get on a call or they listen to this podcast, and Jeremy's gonna be like, "Everybody do X."
But as you know, as a marketer, if everybody did X, X would stop working. But honestly Mark, you know, with his podcast and his in-in community crushes it. I've got other clients in Chicago that also crush it that would never do what Mark's doing. You know what I mean? They're all about [00:41:00] digital. So it all works, and that's one of the things we love about our community is we're gonna, give you case study after case study, so you're never out of ideas.
The hardest thing about business is there are no guarantees, and you gotta pick something that you feel passionate about, you gotta follow through on. That's the hardest part about business, and that's the hardest thing for a lot of property managers because we're such black and white people. We're like, "Just give me the formula."
My screening criteria is my screening criteria. Unfortunately, marketing is never going to be a screening criteria. It's
so different. Just different on market, different on your product
offering, different on so many
variables.
Stacey Salyer: Oh, yeah. Yeah, no, for sure. Well, I love that you brought that up. And that-- And I think the consistency, and that's the same. If you're looking to acquire, you know, you can't tell me like, "Well, I, I made some phone calls." Okay, well,
did you make more phone calls? Did you invite them to coffee? Did you go to coffee? Are you telling people that you're buying companies? I can't tell you more. I mean, that, that's truly, it's just that consistent, like you just have [00:42:00] to keep going and going, right? And it can be really hard, and I know marketing tends
to not be super popular in, in property management, and I, I mean, I have theories why, but it is one of those like there isn't-- You can't necessarily see the ROI right away, right?
Like even when I started, when I launched this business, I mean, I went full bore. Okay, I'm out there and I, and I do do a lot, but it takes a long time, too, to kind of build that base, and you have to keep, you know, ch- testing what works, what doesn't work, like what kind of language works.
Are you calling in your
ideal client?
Who is your ideal client? So- Anyway, but repetitive. You just gotta keep doing it and doing it. Yeah, like Mark has built an amazing podcast and super cool, but he, he's very consistent and he does it all the time.
Jeremy Pound: I, I think the time and the consistency is the moat. That's what most people are afraid to appreciate. I mean, faith is a real powerful thing. Not talking about the religious side, but think about faith. Think [00:43:00] about the word faith and how it's convinced millions of people in the entire world to do crazy things, right?
Faith is a really powerful thing, and it's required to do something big. That means you're gonna get kicked in the face a couple times. You're gonna be like, "I made 30 calls. Nobody answered. I've been offering this. It's not working." The faith is the only thing that's going to get you over the hump on the other side of the moat.
But once you're there and it's rocking and rolling for you and you've got the, the, the momentum,
it's gonna keep everybody else from stealing your lunch. So it's worth investing in.
Stacey Salyer: Absolutely. Very cool. Well, before we go, what
else would you like to share? Is there anything you guys are working on this year? Is there anything that we can talk about?
Jeremy Pound: We're always doing cool things. You mentioned our community. We've started our Scale Club community. Used to only be open to people that were kind of at our top tier of coaching, where we hired your BDM, we're managing [00:44:00] it. And now we're trying to let more and more people in because we think being around other people, seeing new ideas are great.
We love our NARPM community. I, I think it's great. But when you get into NARPM, you're talking about so many different things operationally and you know, the craft of property management, the legalities. Imagine a version of NARPM that just focuses on growth. And so that's what we like to think about Scale Club is.
So there's not a lot of room for, what's happening with regulation and tenant screening. We're just focused on the customer acquisition side, which is my fancy way of saying sales and marketing and so we have that available. I know Stacey is one of our amazing, you know, insider experts that's in there and advising everybody.
We've got our new program where we'll actually close sales for you. So we have a new product called Closer that Jen came up. So imagine if I took all your sales calls and you only paid me when I closed them. We're doing that. So we're bringing in some amazing BDMs. We're training them and we will [00:45:00] actually close your deals for you.
That requires lead flow, obviously, 'cause we can't close if you've got none. But for a lot of our owners that are just like kinda fed up with doing the sales themselves and not quite ready to like commit to another business development manager, we created that and it's going really well. We launched that a couple months ago.
We're already on a waiting list. So we're doing always new cool things. We always have our Sales Mastery event every year, which we're going to announce very soon, which will be later in the year. But overall, you know, kind of my parting shot is, Stacey, and this... You'll hear me say this all the time, is the worst time to start growing and scaling and marketing and selling is when you need it.
I am on a platform to get everybody to realize if you want a better lifestyle, a more profitable business, the optionality to acquire or to be acquired, if you want better talent, if you want your clients to be happier, if you wanna fire the bad clients and hire the good clients, it all starts with sales and marketing.
And [00:46:00] so start it before you need it. Invest in it. I, I'm just like, that
is the, the the religion that I'm trying to spread, for lack of a better word.
Stacey Salyer: The religion. I like it. the cult that you are working
Jeremy Pound: my cult,
Stacey Salyer: Cults aren't a bad thing. There's a book, "How to Create a Cult." You've probably read it.
Jeremy Pound: team all the time, we, we're trying to put the cult in culture, you know?
Stacey Salyer: Yeah. no, I love it.
Jeremy Pound: beliefs.
Stacey Salyer: Yeah,
I know. Yeah, and I'm just over here on the other sales funnel, my new cult as well, like growing out the acquisition funnel, and that's why I think- Yeah. And I think it's so much fun to talk to you. I mean, you and I could probably
talk about sales all day long, and I think it's really
needed in our industry. Again, I love a good SOP, I love a good process, but for the love, that is not all we do in property management. We gotta focus on acquiring the customer and acquiring other companies, otherwise we won't be existing for all of our clients that we wanna serve.
So,
This was super [00:47:00] fun. I'll have to have you back on especially, you know, as the year goes on and we can talk more about all the cool things that you guys are doing. And really wanna thank you for joining me today.
Jeremy Pound: Anytime, Stacey. It's always good seeing you.
Stacey Salyer: Have a good one. All
Jeremy Pound: You too.
Outro: Thanks for listening to the Stacey Salyer show. Here's the deal. You can read about acquisitions anywhere, but you can't learn acquisitions from someone who's done it the way I have as a buyer, a seller, and from the corporate side evaluating hundreds of companies. That's why I need you to subscribe and share this with someone in your network who needs to hear it.
And if this episode landed, leave a five star review. It's how more PM owners find the only acquisition expertise in the space that comes from all sides of the table. And while you're at it, grab my Acquisition Readiness checklist on my website at staceysalyer.com. Then when you're ready to move from Growth Thinking to Growth Building, explore the Built to Acquire program.
Don't leave it [00:48:00] on the table. See you on the next episode.
