Intro: [00:00:00] Welcome to the Stacey Salyer Show, the podcast for property management leaders ready to think bigger about growth. I'm Stacey Salyer and the only acquisition strategist in this industry who sat on all sides of the m and a table. I've been the buyer acquiring a 370 door competitor during COVID using seller financing.
I've been the seller building and exiting a seven figure business. And I've been the corporate evaluator as director of acquisitions, assessing over hundreds of companies nationally. That means I know exactly what you're thinking, what you're missing, and what actually works when it comes to buying and integrating in this space.
On this show, we dig into acquisitions as a real business tool. Not luck, not someday. You'll learn positioning, strategy, numbers, and integration from someone who's actually done it all. Let's go.
Stacey Salyer: Welcome back my friends [00:01:00] to the Stacey Salyer Show, where we talk about buying and selling property management companies and all things property management. I have a guest back on. This is actually my first guest who is the second time, a reoccurring
Jen Ruelens: the term is returning favorite, Stacey. Returning favorite
Stacey Salyer: yes. Thank you. Thank you. She's been a podcast hoster longer than I, so it is a returning favorite, the amazing Hold It With PM Jen out of Pennsylvania. So welcome back.
Jen Ruelens: Thanks so much. Get rich slow.
Stacey Salyer: Yes. All right. Okay, so you're gonna be in for a treat today. You're here with two podcasters, content creators, and women who love to talk a lot about investing in real estate and buying and holding and all the things. So today, we wanted to get together. We're going to talk about our trip together to Arizona, where it was 115 [00:02:00] degrees.
I have no idea why people live there, but I digress. And gosh, what month was that? We went to the Women's Investor Conference
Jen Ruelens: Beginning of June
Stacey Salyer: Yes, I believe it
Jen Ruelens: And it was so hot. It was just, ugh, I c- I could not... Like you said, why are people coming here? I've heard it's a desirable place to go, Scottsdale, but it was not the week we were there, not outdoors
Stacey Salyer: No, no. It was truly like living in a, in an oven. But anyway, it was a great, a great event. So, Liz and Andressa with InvestHER, the Women's InvestHER conference, they put that on. It was an amazing conference. So I wanted to get together with Jen because she so kindly went with me to that event and helped me work my booth.
If you ever need a booth mate, she is wonderful. She did a great job. Super fun to hang out with and, and work with. And we thought it'd be fun to come on and talk about the event, and then really talk about the women we [00:03:00] met. And I really wanna talk about who's interested in buying and selling property management companies, really mostly buying on this particular episode.
We're gonna talk about basically, like, how people are getting into property management and who is looking at buying property management companies, and then also investing actually in the properties themselves as well. So, stick around. This will be a super fun conversation, and I promise you're gonna learn some new things.
So yes, we traveled to Scottsdale met there, and it was 115 degrees the entire week
Jen Ruelens: Have you ever been to a women's investment event like that before?
Stacey Salyer: No. So this apparently is the year for me of attending anything that's just only women. So I started the year, February, I started at Julie Solomon's women's retreat Unscripted. First time I'd ever done anything like that, a women's retreat. And then in June, I went to the Women's InvestHer. So that's the first time.
What about you?
Jen Ruelens: No, never a [00:04:00] female-focused investment event. I hosted one a year ago, but it was just like a 12-person dinner party. What was so surprising to me, 'cause I've been to many investment events where the room is full of investors of different kinds, and here locally they, they of course are mostly male-dominated, and they're very religious in like sometimes in tone.
So they're organized around religious groups, and we have a strong Mennonite Amish population here, and so you'll often find a lot of that or of course Orthodox Jewish people. I don't know why. That's just, I can see that when I'm in the room. And then when I leave the Central Pennsylvania area, the investment conferences are usually, again, mostly male-dominated.
If you see women, they're not usually there alone. They're usually there with their male counterpart or partner or whatever. And it's diverse in terms of like they're doing very different things. This was so cool because not only was it all women, they were all very independent in what they were doing.
So they didn't say, "Well, my husband does this," or, "We do [00:05:00] that." They really said, "I do this," and, "I want this." They were also fabulously dressed. I love that. That's a very shallow thing, but man, was that fun. It was a fun event to dress for, to be seen, to be in pictures. I just liked it. I just thought they looked fabulous, and I loved that and how open they were when they came to our table, like how they went to every table with the intent, it seemed like to me, who was there and what was going on
Stacey Salyer: Yeah. Yeah, no, it was a fabulous event. First of all, I mean, every woman I met there was super badass. I think the cool thing was is I met women who, number one, have not invested yet, like they, they were there to learn and just kind of soak up knowledge and information, and then some, that have been investing for years and just doing really different things.
I met a woman who flips mobile homes does...
I mean, so many different things in real estate. The one thing that I walked away with, well, one of the many, was that they, a- pretty much everybody had niched down. They were very [00:06:00] niche and they found their kind of area,
and
that was what they focused on, which I think is really important because, as soon as you kind of start, like, widening that net, I feel like, you know, you can really lose yourself, lose money, all that kind of good stuff.
But yeah, I would say the outfits, amazing. I mean, really,
Jen Ruelens: Yeah.
Stacey Salyer: really
Jen Ruelens: Piggybacking though on that focus, the other thing I noticed was that the things they were niching on, they were niching. It felt like they were going extremely passive, right? Flipping, wholesaling, those kinds of businesses, storage, whatever. Or they were being like more than just property management, they were doing a lot of co-living.
Didn't you hear a lot of people talking about co-living management and ownership? Which to me is like property management times five. It's social worker/property management. At least that's my impression of what that asset class is like. And so I, in my mind I was going, "Wow, so what... I know I'm comfortable in [00:07:00] a much more active form of real estate investment than a lot of people are."
And it felt like even in that room they were like, "We don't want that. We either want this passive thing or this thing that you think is too much."
Stacey Salyer: Yeah, it was interesting. I also-- It was kind of fascinating how many are still self-managing. Which leads me to my next point
is, so I went as a sponsor, so I sponsored the event. I got the opportunity to get on stage and talk a little bit about about what I do and how I help people. But, I went into it like this is a brand-new market for me, right?
And a brand-new, like ICA, which is ideal client avatar. And I honestly was like, "Oh, I don't know. Are, are people gonna be interested in buying property management companies?" Because in my current world, my ideal client right now already owns a property management company, and that's, that's pretty easy. You already own one, so sure, go out and buy some more doors, add to it, easy-peasy.
I'm like, "Well, I don't know." But [00:08:00] the at-attraction was definitely there. In fact, I had women who purposely had added me to their lists. I mean, they had already put me on their, their calling card, whatever it is in the app. And because they're currently self-managing, they were very intrigued with what I'm doing and how I'm helping people, achieve their goals and their, increase their assets basically in, in real estate in general.
So I found that really interesting. I had a lot more people come up and talk to us than I anticipated, so I don't know what, what you were thinking, 'cause I know you kind of came in just helping.
Jen Ruelens: I had no idea. I, and I've worked booths before for, my own company and things like that, but not really in that way. And so I was very eager to just try it out and see what it was about. And then you told me "Okay, we're, like, talking to these women. You own properties, now own the management company."
And I thought, "All right. I'll do whatever you say, lady, but that is a stretch." And they had thought about it. They did see the alignment there. And it opened up my eyes [00:09:00] because, I have a management company that I will one day sell, I'm sure. And I'd always thought, I- I'm mixing and mingling with the people who are gonna buy it when I'm at these property manager events.
I thought those were my buyers. I never thought of the way these lady investors, their eyes lit up when they're, they started connecting some of the dots we were showing them, about how this works and how this grows. And I went, "Oh yeah, I guess it makes sense that I've met people like this in my community that while they're not, they don't...
they own property. They don't o- own a, a real estate company. I could help them do that." And I've seen that happen. One of my newest competitors in town, I don't know, he's owned some doors, but he got a real estate license and he's got a property management franchise and now he's one of my competitors.
And I know another woman who went from not owning any real estate besides her own personal home and a career in technology to buying a property management franchise and now she's several years into it and making a real go of it. Probably a real early looker on the way AI was going to [00:10:00] affect our, our economy.
I think she was an early mover and has had that advantage. But yeah, I guess I should think about that. Who's gonna buy this company one day? And it could be anybody, not just my PM friends.
Stacey Salyer: Right. Yeah. So I think that is kind of a misconception. Again, we, we run in the property management space, right? I mean, you and I have been in the industry, we're in NARPM, that's kind of like our group. And I think our, the people we hang out with just assume, "Oh, hey, the only one buying are people that already own."
But I will say that I was pleasantly surprised on how many women actually, book meetings. They're very interested. They're interested in my coaching program on how to go out, and basically they already own the assets. I mean, they, they're already self-managing. And then why not do it at scale?
Because number one, I mean, now you're gonna create a whole 'nother asset. You're gonna have a- another business, but it's the vertical, like right next to what you already own. You're gonna be able to put your assets into it. Now you're gonna be able to scale, because [00:11:00] we all know if you have 10 or 20 doors that you're self-managing or even if you're just third-party managing, you don't have that amazing scale where you can start going to your vendors and saying, "Hey, I want a better deal," or, "Hey," like certain vendors, I think AppFolio, I think their rule used to have to have like what? 100 doors to even use them,
right?
And so, we had some amazing conversations and the women were like, "Yeah, no, this is really cool." This is something they wanted to do. And so I would say if you're looking to sell, don't, don't maybe just turn off, putting it out there to lots of other people too, like the
Jen Ruelens: Yeah.
Stacey Salyer: So
Jen Ruelens: My pitch to the ladies was, "Okay, you own these doors," and like you said, "You're already doing the management." And they talked about "I'm actually trying to get out of the management. I wanna grow so I can get out of the..." I said, "I got it. I got it. We totally are speaking the same language." So you buy the property management company, right?
You get the processes, you learn it, and then I started talking to them about how what you want is a passive [00:12:00] experience with the real estate, right? You don't want to be doing the management anymore. I said, "Think about I'm a little bit of the opposite story. I built a property management company and then started buying doors.
And I, as an investor personally, my personal assets, I go look at them once or twice, I make a plan just like I do for a new client, and then I onboard it, and then it's being managed by my team. I just get a report once a month. I get questions, just like any other client, that I answer, to my email or text.
I don't let them just walk back to my office to deal with stuff on my property." I said, "No, I want the actual user or the owner experience." And so I said, "I'm, I'm going in, I make a punch list, I say what's what, and then they report back. And by the way, now that I own this property management company, do you know what's happened to my deal flow?"
I said, "Now I literally have a big sign that says, 'Hey, everybody with real estate problems, come here. You can pay me to solve them. I can buy your properties.'" So every time I go out and look at a [00:13:00] property, I'm gonna evaluate it for that pros- for that prospective client, but I could also offer to buy it.
And we all know that people are in all different kinds of positions when they call us to ask about our services. It's a great time to pick up properties. It's a great time. Something I've been doing a lot of is picking up properties that I've been managing and had stabilized for years. And when it's time for the owner to get out, old landlords who've had it easy and made some money are really lazy, Stacey. They are two things. They don't want to deal with realtors. They think realtors are gonna take way too much of what they're owed. Like that's just a thought, a belief that they have, whether it's justified or not. They also are weirdly private. Like I ask old landlords "Why are you so ag-," and they t- so against like publicly listing and they'll say "I don't need," they, they say the tenants are gonna leave.
I just think they don't want people around town knowing what they're doing. I think it's a privacy issue.
Stacey Salyer: Oh, yeah.
Jen Ruelens: what's interesting is I'm working with Tim Wehner right now at LendingOne on doing a Building Wealth for [00:14:00] the Property Managers event. So LendingOne, DSCR loan company. By the way, really nice affiliate programs for property managers and I think they're a great referral place to send our clients, and that's what I'm doing, and I'm using them personally for deals where it makes sense.
But property managers, somebody told me this number, I don't know if it's true, Stacey, but that only 20% of property managers are personally investing in real estate, which I call getting high on my own supply, and that's not good. And when that person told me the statistic, they specifically went, "What if only 20% of stockbrokers owned stocks?
Would we be as hot on stocks?" And what is that about? Why is that? Why are property managers who are creating value every day on assets not doing it for themselves personally? Is this a mindset issue? Is this a resource issue? What is this? And so we're taking our little show on the road and doing some shows and talking about how, like between my visibility [00:15:00] campaign, trying to get property managers to build personal brands, build company brands, be more visible, be more out there and advocating, and his.
So I f- feel like the wealthiest person in the world, Stacey, between this property management company that has reoccurring revenue, and not to brag, but a 4.4 Google review rating with 370 reviews. You can contribute to that. That, my personal real estate, and this platform, Hold It With PM Jen.
Now I am building all three of these things every day. Every day my work goes into these things.
Stacey Salyer: Yep. Yep
Jen Ruelens: But I gotta tell you, for a 45-year-old woman, I feel really strong with the assets that I've built at the stage that they're at, and I'm gonna keep putting them in there, and I feel good that I... W- one, the real estate i- is separable.
Does- it doesn't depend on the others. And I even think OneFocus and Hold It With PM Jen can survive separately if that time ever comes. At least I'm building them to the point where they can, so I have
ultimate flexibility.
Stacey Salyer: and you're doing it
Jen Ruelens: W- we'll see. We'll see what happens in the future, but [00:16:00] I think property managers are ignoring a lot when they don't work on the branding, the visibility, as well as those hard assets.
'Cause reoccurring revenue's great, but we've all seen things happen with these companies. You, you, and you have to keep working to keep making the money come in.
Stacey Salyer: So I will say, I think one thing well, one of the many refreshing conversations I had Was that the women investors that we spoke with understood the assignment as far as they owned assets, and they saw the ability if they bought a property management company, that they would have instant deal flow ability.
Versus, I think, the regular property manager business owner, I mean, myself included when I started didn't necessarily see that as a benefit. And so I'd love to talk more about that and kind of like how you're educating people around that because that is, I think, a huge miss in our industry, and I don't feel like we talk about that at conferences.
I feel like conferences, again, and I say this [00:17:00] many times on my show, super operations, which makes sense, and ancillary fees quite a bit since probably 2017, '18, somewhere around there. But as I've said in the past we've got to watch ourselves on that and because, I mean, you've already seen West Coast, highly regulated, so whatever's starting on the West is gonna move out, to the rest of the US.
So how do you protect yourself as a business owner to continue to build wealth for yourself and your, generational wealth and definitely personal investing? So how are you working on educating others around that? I mean, I know that you're,
you think a lot about it, but is there something that you're, you're kind of doing?
Jen Ruelens: I think just repeating myself constantly on the generational wealth building power of real estate. I don't even know that property managers fully understand how real estate works. I really don't. I don't know that they understand the market cycles, [00:18:00] property life cycles, why it's a five-way payday, how it's different than stocks and equities.
And listen, I mean, some of us are accidental investor managers, right? We're really kind of helping those people who are in between situations and we're killing time. And then some of us, like I was talking about your podcast a couple weeks ago with Mark Ainley. He says, "I'm in a super investor mindset market."
That's very easy to teach that. So how am I doing it? Well, I do it with my content. I do it around driving and making it super simple. I start, I end every podcast with to buy and hold forever and ever, amen. And if I had to say in one sentence, that's- Mm-hmm ... the brand message that's oversimplifying it, but that's what I think real people should be doing, and I call myself the voice of the hold.
And I think if I make people curious enough about that, and I constantly just have those conversations. And it's a lot of one-on-one conversations for me with my clients, counseling them through rough parts of their ownership. Can you hold this? If you can't hold it, [00:19:00] what does that mean you're losing? Really putting it into perspective for them, because anybody else they talk to in this industry is gonna say, "You feel like selling.
When can we put it on the market? Oh, you feel like buying. When can we buy it?" No eye toward what is right for this person in their journey. Can I offer them a solution that gets what they want that, doesn't, that gets them what they want within the bounds of reality, right? It might be not exactly what they asked for, but it's a good solution, because those people make a big fat check every time you transact, and that's part of the visibility campaign, and I'm speaking to people about property managers, step up and speak, 'cause it's your expertise that matters to these people.
Put it out there for them to find, and then teaching investors, "Hey, you know what? There's people you ask realtors and lenders for advice on. There's things like that, and then there's other things that you ask a property manager for advice on." There are different people with different perspectives, and you have to go out and find the one that meets you, like the one that meets you where you're [00:20:00] at, and that's why we need more property managers out there, because I'm alienating.
I'm not getting that many. I need nice ones, mean ones, fat ones, tall ones, ugly ones. I need all of you out there with your faces doing this because there's so many investors out there, and, it's the 250th anniversary of our country. Is there anything more American than private property rights and acquiring land and, and doing that?
I think that's just so American and patriotic, and so maybe I'll bring in some of that if that gets some more people to the
trough to
Stacey Salyer: that. Well, let's go back to the five-way payday.
Jen Ruelens: Oh, I
Stacey Salyer: that five-way payday
Because I, I think that that will-- I would love to hear more about that. Tell us about that
Jen Ruelens: Yeah, and so basically the message here is what makes real estate such an outstanding vehicle for building generational wealth is that it pays you in five ways. And so the one we're all the most familiar with is cash flow, right? However much income I received and had expenses, whatever's left over is a form of return.
Great. And listen, us property managers know [00:21:00] cash flow is just a function of leverage, right? If you don't have any debt on the property, the cash flow's gonna be immain- im- immensely high. If you've leveraged the property and have less of your equity tied up in it, you're gonna have less cash flow. So cash flow is something that you can decide how much to take now or later based on your equity.
But that's just one way. The second way is leverage, and I just played with that, right? So if we put debt on the property, now I'm not putting my cash into the property to generate those rents. Instead, I'm using the bank's money. And if in you're like in my market where we have an average cap rate of 11%, and the, you can get debt for 7, say, well, I still have a 4% delta in that.
I'm still making 4% on the bank's money while I make 11% on mine. And so that's extremely sexy. You ... I mean, you can use debt to buy stocks. Guillermo actually informed me of all of that stuff. But it's freaking complicated to do, to use debt to go buy some stocks. So [00:22:00] that's wonderful. We've got a rational banking system in this country and private property rights.
You can get loans and reasonably do this. The third way it's gonna pay you is through appreciation, and what's great about appreciation is there's three kinds. So there's market appreciation, the kind where you hold the asset and just over time through inflationary forces the price goes up. But you can also get instant appreciation if you do like me and buy a property for 140 that appraises at 165.
Closing table, bada bing, bada boom, I made 25 grand in instant appreciation. And then like a sneaky snake, I turned around and put 20 grand into it and raised the value another 30
grand And forced 10.
Stacey Salyer: and a caveat, I just wanna jump into that really quick. So when you own a property management company, you have way more access to deal flow.
So, and that, and like that, that third topic that you brought up, that's where I think a lot of... there's like a huge miss on that, right? Because you're [00:23:00] managing a property, I would almost guarantee you, and you, you've probably done this, somebody comes to you, a landlord's like, I'm tired."
Maybe they have an illness, whatever. They wanna dump the property. You can most likely buy it for technically undervalue, because you're also gonna like maybe not have fees, whatever, right? There's some deal in there. So you're gonna be able to have access to deal flow, be able to buy that. Now you have that third point, your appreciation, whatever, and yeah, win, win, win all around,
Jen Ruelens: The story on that deal... Well, I'll finish the five ways, and then I'll tell you the story on
that deal. Then I forced appreciation with I just reconfigured the heat and air conditioning and the utilities on that. So I forced appreciation. Okay, so that's the third way it pays you. The fourth way it pays you is tax savings.
So we're using all the depreciation on that to control our tax burden today, but the other thing is I can 1031 this in the [00:24:00] future and defer taxes into other like kind investments. It's super tax advantage because it's infrastructure. Everybody thinks this is like rich people trickery. It's not. Housing is infrastructure, just like roads and bridges and airports and stuff like that, and the government is not interested in being a property manager.
Shock of shocks, it's a hard job. They
don't want to do it. And so we get these incredible... And if you get real estate professional status, on your tax return and different things, you can get some really sexy things going with taxes. And then if that wasn't enough, you have the fifth way, which is the inflation hedge.
Two aspects to this. One, where else are you going to put your money that's going to do anywhere near as good during periods of inflation? Nowhere but real estate. The second is, as long as you get fixed rate financing, when the inflation happens, your rents go up, but your largest expense, the debt, stays flat, which creates an opportunity there and protects you in an inflationary [00:25:00] situation.
It's one of the reasons it works so well. And so, listen, it's more complicated. It's more work than owning stocks or owning other more passive assets. But I think for everyday Americans, a small handful of properties, a small handful of single family homes or small multi-units within their community can change everything about that family's financial trajectory for generations to come.
And that is so realistic and real. And by the way, for property managers, all the negative stuff about owning real estate, that it's hard to find, hard to negotiate, hard to operate, we're already doing it.
Why aren't
Stacey Salyer: For other people and making, and we're not being, right? And we're not
Jen Ruelens: So let's give some property managers some confidence here about how that deal went.
What happened was, and I'm the girl who says buy and hold forever and ever, right? So when the client calls and says, "Hey, I'm thinking about selling the two-unit." And I go, "What are you talking about? [00:26:00] It's, I've renovated it over the last 10 years. It's making money. What are you doing?" And he just says, "I don't want to do it anymore."
I go, "You're not that old." He goes, "I just don't want to do it anymore." I go, I go, "Okay. You got a, you got a realtor? What are you gonna do?" He goes, "No." And I go, "Okay. So you need a referral." "Yeah." He goes, "I want to sell it off-market." And, 'cause I do that, I do advertise off-market deals to my clients, and I go, "All right.
Well, then, I'm interested as long as you know off-market doesn't trade as well." And w- he says, "Well, what's it worth?" And I ran an income valuation on it on the phone, and I go, "Eh, I'm coming out to 150 right now," which for some people listening to this are like, "A two-unit that's grossing $22,000 a year, 150?"
Yes, welcome to my community.
Stacey Salyer: Like
Jen Ruelens: yeah, USDs. Yeah.
Stacey Salyer: Oh,
that's like a down, that's a down payment. Yeah, okay. That's a down payment in my market,
Jen Ruelens: In your market. So, so he says, "If I could get 150, I'd sell it right away." And I said, "Give me the weekend." And I went home and I just [00:27:00] talked to my husband and whatever, and I came back and I offered him, I sent him an offer. I was like, "I'll offer you 140, and you seller finance 25%," like I think I said seven years and like right?
And at that point, rates were seven. And he came back and was like, "Five years at 5%," and we made a deal. And that one I got $25,000, equity at the signing table. I did some stuff with the utilities. I saw a path. And by the way, I told this guy about this. "I'm gonna buy this, I'm gonna get rid of that oil boiler, I'm gonna put this money in."
He's like, "Okay." He's just, he was just done. And I told him, "In my best professional advice you can..." And I, actually we just had a single family. He says, "I kind of want 150 for this, and it's a great flip. But I don't usually mess with single family." He really didn't want to take it off, on, onto the market, and I tossed him 120.
I said, "I'll do 120 on this if you really want to keep it quick and simple, but I really think you should call a realtor." And he called a realtor. And he'll sell it for more [00:28:00] than that, so I won't get that one. But that's okay. I'm true to my professional advice, and I have one I'm working right now. A bigger one, a much bigger one that I'm very excited about.
And if it works, great, but it's gonna have to be creative, right? We're gonna have to be creative. But because I have the relationship with this owner, this investor who owns the building, we're taking our time. We're being pretty transparent with each other. That was the same thing with that other seller.
Like it wasn't the normal off market, I called on a sign or an ad or did some prospecting. That is very tense, a lot of secrets. What I've noticed is when I'm talking with my clients, gosh, it's the way you'd hope real estate would be.
Stacey Salyer: But you
already know... Yeah, but you already know the property, right? I mean, you can go into your AppFolio, you can look at your work orders, you can... You know it inside and out. You know the tenants. You know if they're paying on on time. You know the lease agreement. I mean, and that, that's the thing too, is that out there things can be manufactured, things can be fake, whatever.
I mean, you know that [00:29:00] there's a really security deposit, all the stuff. So on that one deal, so did I hear you right? You didn't actually have to put any cash out?
Jen Ruelens: We did in the HVAC work. But no, to purchase, no money from the pocket, fully financed, and then I saved my cash to do that work
Stacey Salyer: Wow. So how cool is that? And you wouldn't have had that unless you owned your property management company, 'cause you wouldn't have had
Jen Ruelens: Never. And by the way, I would have had a lot of work to do. I just wrote up the plan, replace them with these, and then like my team went out and got bids, and they came back, and I approved the bid. Like actually that one we had to get we had to get the contractor almost arrested to get our deposit back because they were a long-term vendor who screwed us over.
But like just it's what I would do for my management fee anyway for any other client, so why why wouldn't I do that for us? And it keeps things really low stakes, right? 'Cause you would think "Oh, my client didn't get paid their rent this month. What would it be like if I didn't get paid?" And [00:30:00] I'll tell you, the way I'm running it, it keeps, it keeps the emotions the same as in the company.
I don't get personally excited when tenants are non-compliant at OneFocus, and I don't get personally excited when they're non-compliant in my property. I don't have an outsized reaction. So it's a pleasant experience for me owning these. It's not,
Stacey Salyer: Right.
Jen Ruelens: it's not a burden
Stacey Salyer: Yeah, I think once somebody can get to that point where they remove all emotion from, number one, like running a business like your property management company, and then number two, when you own investments and you remove all emotion from that it's just life is great. It's, it's literally a non-issue.
Like I know I wrote about, I wrote about it a while back in one of my Vibe emails about how I got a four-star review on my Airbnb. Now mind you, I had been carrying a five for three years, five-star review and I work very hard. I take it very serious. I love to create a beautiful experience. I mean, I liter- like everything that's in there, I've...
it's curated to the fullest extent. But it [00:31:00] was funny, I was looking, I was just popping on to look at the calendar 'cause mostly 'cause I wanted to go pop over there to South Carolina and hang out, and I saw the four-star re- review pop up and I was like, "Huh." I read it and I was like, "Hmm. All right."
And then I closed the app and I thought, "Yeah, well, I have a team." That's the whole point of the team. The team, responded and took care of it and whatever. And, and I, I remember thinking "Oh my gosh, former Stacey would've freaked the F out." She would've been... Like, I was driving down the freeway at the time when I read the review.
Okay, don't do that. But
Jen Ruelens: It's not
Stacey Salyer: yeah, former Stacey would've pulled off the freeway and been like, "Oh my gosh," like messaging my team and doing all these things. I was like, "No, they got it." And you know what? That stuff happens. It is what it is. I mean, I'm still a super host for any of
Jen Ruelens: Yeah. It's
Stacey Salyer: is.
But yeah.
Jen Ruelens: So I see the difference in the way my husband reacts to the emails versus
me, right? Mm-hmm. So we [00:32:00] get the same emails as owners of the properties that we own. He is not in real estate. He's a geologist. He works a job doing, I don't know, he talks to rocks or draws pictures of rocks. I don't know what he's doing.
It's something like that. And so we own these properties, but of course, I make a lot of the calls. But we'll get the emails about it's time to renew a lease, or we're having this issue, so this is what we're doing, and he'll text me and be like, "We need to talk about this email we got." And this ... And I'll have to be like, "We got an email?
What do you mean?" And he'll be a little excited about it when I come home. "What do we do? And huh, remember?" And I, and I have to really watch and be like, I have to take him seriously. He's literally a client right now that I have to talk off the ledge when I want to go, "Shut up, I've got it," right?
I don't bother you with how you do the chores, right? I feel that way about it, and so I, it is a good reminder now that we're investing together that that's what's happening. That reaction to that email is, is probably a common one for most investors, to get excited, to feel [00:33:00] excited, and I have to
A- and it's informing how we construct our messages, how we do our communication. How can I be effective and helpful and not freak these people out? 'Cause nothing freaks us out. Nothing.
Stacey Salyer: No, no. We've--
Jen Ruelens: and burn.
Stacey Salyer: yeah, we have had many conversations, usually in an Uber. We probably freak out the Uber driver on the trials and tribulations of property management. We'll have to do another show on that, the stories.
But yeah, no. So I think just kind of like coming back around I would love to see more conversation, as we move into 2027, like at future conferences.
If any conference planners are listening we'd love to hear and talk more about, hey, how do we become investors? How do we teach our team? Because what a great way to be able to teach your team, your property managers or your bookkeeper, whoever, like everybody. How do you invest in a property?
How do you do it?
Jen Ruelens: I want to start doing, and I've had it on my vision board for a while, an employee investment program where an [00:34:00] employee finds a deal and we assist in some way to get it acquired, help them stabilize it and, and operate it. And I haven't gotten that far in doing it, but I'm really proud to say of nine US-based employees, two of them are clients and one was a client and her daughter started a property management company, so now she manages those.
But she gets it. She's in the business. She's making... She's investing the same way even though her daughter's managing them. That's fine. I love that. A third of my team has skin in the game, and some of them are looking, and they're, they're being cautious, but I'm sharing deals. If I get a deal here and I'm not gonna do it, it goes to my employees next,
Stacey Salyer: I love that.
and yeah. and I think it makes, I think it makes everybody better at what they do. Because, like you kind of mentioned in the beginning, if you were working with a stockbroker and they owned zero stocks, I mean, wouldn't that be kind of weird?
Jen Ruelens: [00:35:00] Right? And something I've noticed is it takes m- some people a very long time to get there. That they can declare an interest, a desire, and because it is so big and different for them to do s- for, for m- many Americans, owning a home is not realistic, much less more than one, right? And being able to take advantage and do that, and I think it's a mindset issue, as we know.
We always talk about that. But to have this team constantly presented with success stories, and I try to inform them "Who are these people we're working for?" And, and I compare them to them. "Oh, Andy has an attitude like you. Michael, and similar story, similar da-da-da-da." And trying to show them you can do this.
You can do this, and I'm here to help. I'm always here to help. I will free for now I have time and I will help. Call
me. And I'm horrified when I find out that one of my employees is going out and doing something and has been [00:36:00] too cautious to come ask for advice. And I go, "Oh my God, you should have...
It'd be the best phone call I got all day if I heard you were going to see a property to buy." That, I, I would cancel plans to go to that with you if you wanted.
Stacey Salyer: Absolutely. So tell us more about your event you're doing with LendingOne, which I also love LendingOne. They have amazing programs, so shout out to them
Jen Ruelens: So yes, shout out to them, but also shout out to me. I
Stacey Salyer: Always you.
Yes. I mean, hey, it would not be a show without Hold It With Pam Jen if she wasn't shouting out to herself.
Jen Ruelens: Right. So like I want a Pennsylvania group of property managers, because I have a long-term goal of changing the legislation here, and we don't currently have a very active NARPM group. And so I said, "You know what? Service providers are doing road shows now. They're going around. And if I can use my PMgen platform to combine..."
And I did one with Pablo at Vendoru back in March, and we brought him to the state and we had a great event, and now I'm partnering with [00:37:00] Tim at LendingOne. So they're doing DSCR loans, loans for investors. I think it is like between your community bank, you put LendingOne in the other pocket. And when you do a deal, I think you're running them through both, right?
And Tim, who's very well known in the industry, does some speaking on just what we've been talking about. How can we get more property managers buying properties, building wealth for themselves alongside the asset that they're building in their management company that, by the way, is so synergistic.
And so we'll do that October 29th in Reading, Pennsylvania. He tells me we're gonna do some golf, even though I'm like, "That's past the October 15th outside deadline. We'll see what happens." But yeah, we'll have 30 or 40 property managers in a room there. And I just got some texts this weekend that I think we'll do something down in Northern Virginia as well, and we're gonna try to thread that needle of I think between, like after NARPM National, but before this other event I'm doing in Ohio in November.
But it's great to see our service partners, like our vendor [00:38:00] partners, getting on the road and spending times in rooms with us. Of course, we get to see them at the big events. But I, when I see service partners doing that, putting people on planes, putting people on trains, spending money at venues, whatever they're doing, I'm like, "That is showing a dedication to this industry."
And yeah, so I'm open to talking to other people who want to come to Pennsylvania and do events like this. I'll help do the promotions and get the property managers in the room and speak if you want, and then you get the opportunity, too. But I'm just trying to keep Pennsylvania property managers engaged, getting together, getting
this information.
And if I can get them into NARPM, great, but they're all gonna be in my army where we go change the legislation. As soon as things calm down, I think our governor's gonna be running for running for president soon. And yeah, and just that's how Pennsylvania be. We just always, our people, like they get pulled into like DC stuff.
I think it's just convenient and a train ride. It must
just be
Stacey Salyer: I will,
any of our Pennsylvania friends [00:39:00] watching, listening, coming from Washington State, listen to what Jen is saying because Washington State, I mean, we're pretty cooked. I don't think there's any going back from
where we are. And, what you see here on the West Coast will come to your state.
So, and again, it's all about balance and I'm a, a very balanced person, so, definitely keep a, keep a pulse on that. So tell us again, October 29th what's the
times?
Jen Ruelens: 29th, and it's 10:00 to 3:00. It's, yeah, if, ugh email me on LinkedIn. I'll send you a link. It's on my LinkedIn, and I'll be posting some more about it. I know Tim's posting about it. We've got a landing page. But get in touch with me. I'll make sure you get the link. It's free.
sponsored
Stacey Salyer: free. I was gonna ask that. Okay.
So free, October 29th. Yeah, and there might be golf or maybe like a Halloween party. I feel like Tim, you should be having a Halloween party because it's like right by Halloween
Jen Ruelens: I think there should be a little bit of a fun thing there, but let's talk to him when we're together at the Florida State Conference in [00:40:00] a month or two. We're gonna be on a cruise ship. Oh my gosh, there's too many bad documentaries right now about cruise ships on Netflix. I've watched them all 'cause I've never been on a cruise ship, and
Stacey Salyer: I haven't
either.
I've never been on a cruise ship, so it's gonna be an experience. For anyone that wants to be educated and have fun September 7th through the 11th is the Florida State NARPM chapter conference, and I highly recommend. You don't have to be part of Florida State to go. It's gonna be super fun.
Jen and I are actually on a panel together. We're gonna be talking about building, buying, selling property management companies. And I also love to snorkel, so I plan on snorkeling whatever day that is.
Jen Ruelens: I love eating and drinking and being places where I have to wear sunscreen. I'll tell you this. So like cruises aren't my thing and that was not the top selling point for me. But the names that are going to this event got me. And I gotta tell you, I wanna be trapped on a boat for four days [00:41:00] with these names.
So if you are in the industry trying to make relationships, build them, if you wanna get Stacey on a pool lounger with like a Mai Tai and see what comes out of her mouth, book
Stacey Salyer: Well, that, that's the Salyer actually. The Salyer will be coming out, and I like vodka soda with lime muddled, for anyone that's listening and wants to take notes.
Jen Ruelens: Right. I, I, I think, I think... Listen, I'm so excited for this event 'cause of the people that are going and the, and the the experience we're gonna have. We're gonna be on beaches. We're gonna be at pool bars. We're gonna be on boats. We're gonna be going through customs or something together. And if it's great, it's gonna be fantastic, and if it's bad and there's disaster, we're gonna be trauma bonded forever.
And I can't wait to see the group chats that come out of the Florida State Cruise. I can't wait.
Stacey Salyer: Yes. And I, and I didn't tell you this yet, but I
spoke with Roland last week, and, he's doing some interviews and, for some content, and I, I offered our services. I said,
"Hey, [00:42:00] Hold It With Pam Jen and I, the Salyer and Hold It With Pam Jen are both gonna be on the ship. If you are interested in learning how to create content, whether it's like B-roll video or if you wanna do talking head videos, come find us.
We would love to like co-create
or
just play around or like teach." Like I love the water, so I might be in the pool, and I'm happy to chat with you. I will make stupid videos. Like whatever's trending at that time, we're gonna do it
Jen Ruelens: We will be doing it, and I think we're gonna be having a blast. I really can't wait. I'm not even gonna name the names that are coming that I'm the most excited about, 'cause I'm gonna forget some, and then that's offensive to the ones I forgot. But you book who's going. I think, I... Roland had a really out of the box idea with doing a cruise, and I'm excited about it but I'm also nervous.
Stacey Salyer: Okay.
Jen Ruelens: just my inexperience with cruises
Stacey Salyer: that's okay. It's just gonna be an adven- an adventure, and for sure it'll be really fun. So thank you [00:43:00] for being a repeat guest. We love, we love talking to Hold It With PM Jen. She's awesome. You always have great points that you wanna get across. And your event, October 29th in Reading, Pennsylvania, it is free, so if you're in Pennsylvania or close to that, go.
You will not be disappointed. And then
Stacey Salyer: yeah, September 7th through the 11th, register for the inaugural cruise Florida State Conference, and you can hang out with The Slayer
and Hold It With
Jen Ruelens: When you see the video content coming out that week, you're gonna have the worst case of FOMO, so just come and hang out with us. And by the way, let us know you're coming so we can prepare.
Stacey Salyer: Yes, absolutely.
All right, well,
all right. Well, my friends, thank you so much for listening today, and thank you again, Jen, for stopping by, and we'll talk to y'all again soon.
Outro: Thanks for listening to the Stacey Salyer show. Here's the deal. You can read about acquisitions anywhere, but you can't learn [00:44:00] acquisitions from someone who's done it the way I have as a buyer, a seller, and from the corporate side evaluating hundreds of companies. That's why I need you to subscribe and share this with someone in your network who needs to hear it.
And if this episode landed, leave a five star review. It's how more PM owners find the only acquisition expertise in the space that comes from all sides of the table. And while you're at it, grab my Acquisition Readiness checklist on my website at staceysalyer.com. Then when you're ready to move from Growth Thinking to Growth Building, explore the Built to Acquire program.
Don't leave it on the table. See you on the next episode.
