Intro: [00:00:00] Welcome to the Stacey Salyer Show, the podcast for property management leaders ready to think bigger about growth. I'm Stacey Salyer and the only acquisition strategist in this industry who sat on all sides of the m and a table. I've been the buyer acquiring a 370 door competitor during COVID using seller financing.
I've been the seller building and exiting a seven figure business. And I've been the corporate evaluator as director of acquisitions, assessing over hundreds of companies nationally. That means I know exactly what you're thinking, what you're missing, and what actually works when it comes to buying and integrating in this space.
On this show, we dig into acquisitions as a real business tool. Not luck, not someday. You'll learn positioning, strategy, numbers, and integration from someone who's actually done it all. Let's go.
Stacey Salyer: Welcome back, my [00:01:00] friends, to the Stacey Salyer Show, where we talk about buying and selling property management companies and lots of things in between. Today, I have on, , Pablo Gonzalez with Vendoru. And Pablo and I go way back to at least two thousand twenty-five, where we became besties.
, First connecting on LinkedIn. So as much as I give LinkedIn crap, there are good things in LinkedIn. And, , we met in person in Colorado Springs at the, , Broker/Owner Show with NARPM back in two thousand twenty-five. So welcome, Pablo, my bestie, to my show
Pablo Gonzalez: Bestie, it is good to be back on the show, my friend. I, you know, I was thinking about how we met and I was like, "Yeah, we have to have met on LinkedIn." I remember that the first time we connected in person was in, in Broker Owner, but I was having a hard time remembering kind of like what was the first time that I reached out to you or you reached out to me or any of that
stuff.
But, uh, here we are
Stacey Salyer: Yeah. Yeah. I think
Pablo Gonzalez: moments [00:02:00] and a deep friendship later, which I'm very grateful for.
Stacey Salyer: yeah. No, I think I reached out actually. I saw you, like, all over LinkedIn, and you were talking up Property Management Storm, and I had, taken a little hiatus in 2024 and I'm like, "Wait, who's this guy? Have... We haven't met. He doesn't know the Salyer yet." So here we are.
Pablo Gonzalez: Little did I know. Little did I
Stacey Salyer: Yeah, I know. I know.
So my lovely listeners, today we, , are going to be talking about some fun things. A little bit different episode. I wanted to have Pablo on because I, , love riffing with him. If any of you haven't got a chance to meet him, he is awesome to talk to. If you ever have an idea, he's, , one of your go-to guys.
And I thought it'd be fun to talk about, , our 2027 predictions and maybe some hot takes in the, , property management industry. So a little different, , but stick around and see what, see what you think and I would love, , for my listeners too, to write in and tell me what you think. Send me a DM [00:03:00] on, ...
I'm more on Instag- or, yeah, Instagram and Facebook than I am LinkedIn, but you can send me a DM for anywhere. So all right. Let's go. So I would love to know what's one of yours? You came to the show, you said, you're like, "I've got five." You're, like, rubbing your hands together.
Let's do it.
Pablo Gonzalez: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I got five.
Stacey Salyer: Yeah. Okay
Pablo Gonzalez: First one, the PM in a box idea of one platform that can essentially do a lot of things for you right now is a... It feels like a whisper in the property management industry, right? There's the TurboTenant kind of like offering. I forget what his name is, Taylor Haas or whatever.
he's been teasing this idea of a PM in a box. There is no doubt in my mind that there is going to be at least five to 10 of these PM in a boxes out in 2027. And because of that, [00:04:00] because of the fact that I know that, , that I'm sure that these are coming, 'cause it's just too juicy for any AI company to not be talking about this and not be going for this the distribution of how property managers get clients is going to be disrupted by this.
Stacey Salyer: Okay.
Pablo Gonzalez: and what I mean by that is, you know, like right now, I think there's three ways to grow. There is the, , acquisitions, right? , The strategy that you teach and that, , , our friend that's listening is I'm sure very aware of. , There is marketing, , SEO, AIO, AIO, is that what it's called, right?
Like AI optimization. And then there's the idea of networking , and referrals through realtors. I believe that the marketing for the realtor referrer is gonna be so hard at this PM in a box thing, and it's gonna come from so many different angles that are coming bottom up from people that are right now already marketing to realtors, people that are already marketing to do-it-yourself investors, , and now to the general public and to [00:05:00] property managers and to biz op type people that, that strategy is gonna go really, really flat for people, right?
Like the idea of, "Oh man, I've always been referring to you this thing." Based on where the economy's going, it looks like interest rates are going higher, all these different things that are happening, it's harder and harder for the transaction realty side of things , to gain more revenue. It's gonna be way too juicy for all these people to come into the market with this PM in a box competitor that's gonna create a bunch of confusion in the market, and that channel of acquiring new doors through referrals is gonna dry up , really quickly because of it.
Stacey Salyer: Okay, so let's back up a little bit. So PM in a box, , what does that mean to you? I think I, I have an idea what it means to me, , but what, what does that mean to you, like, when you say that out loud?
Pablo Gonzalez: I, I believe that m- so many people are gonna be promised. I'm not saying that it's true, right? It's not true. , It may, may or may not be true that somebody using, , a s- [00:06:00] heavily technological AI suite of tools to create the operational value that a property manager has spent their whole career creating.
But that promise is gonna be so loud and so obnoxious of, "Hey, here is a leasing agent, a maintenance agent," and another kind of, , suite of agents, right? Like a front desk agent, right? Like all this kind of, like, business in a box of AI agents that are gonna be, you know, varying levels of good at what they do, that the market is going to hear so often that you're gonna be able to do the job of a property manager yourself with these agents, that at least before 2027, there's gonna be a period where people are going to believe it enough to try it and put a pause on what they were doing before just to try this thing.
Stacey Salyer: Okay. Okay. So you believe that, , one of the companies, a SaaS company or a, a AI company, is gonna come out and they're gonna offer a suite of all the different agents essentially?
And... [00:07:00]
Pablo Gonzalez: are gonna do that
Stacey Salyer: 10. You think 10.
Pablo Gonzalez: Yeah, I think there's one right now doing it, right? There's one and a half doing it right now. I think there's gonna be a shitload doing it
Stacey Salyer: Okay, okay. Well, who's the, who's the one and a half?
Pablo Gonzalez: Turbo
Stacey Salyer: Do you know? Do you want to? Okay. Oh, turbo ten.
Pablo Gonzalez: Turbo Tenant and, Ta- is it Taylor Haas, the guy that was from APM Help? He's, he's been, he's been talking about this, like, PM in a
Stacey Salyer: Okay. Okay.
Pablo Gonzalez: to people. So right now that's out there. You
Stacey Salyer: Okay. It's out there
Pablo Gonzalez: I'm sure there's somebody in the real estate investing space that's already doing it for, like, the DIY g- person, and I'm sure there's someone in, , , the realtor space already doing it.
I think there's gonna be, you know, like 5X in each one of those spaces coming out with it
Stacey Salyer: Okay. Okay. Yeah, I think we're gonna see a huge shift in our current, like, SaaS partners and... Well, I think we already have seen a shift, right? , I think , we're gonna lose quite a few. That's my kinda like hot take prediction. I think that quite a few are gonna either have to completely change their [00:08:00] business model, , to maybe something like that or close their doors, unfortunately. I don't
Pablo Gonzalez: Yeah. Yeah, totally. What, so what do you, what, what do you think that looks like for you? 'Cause I have that, it's one of my predictions as well of how that shift happens, but what does that, what does that mean to you as far as, like, SaaSes and how it changes?
Stacey Salyer: Really, you know anybody that, you know, even myself, I've just dabbled in Claude. I mean, I've done a teeny-tiny bit of vibe coding. I'm, , actually signed up for a boot camp unrelated to property management. , There's this woman online that teaches you how to build your own AI agents for your business.
, So I signed up for that myself to take that course at the end of, , the month. And I think that any leader that's really embracing that and going down that road is going to see quickly that we're not gonna need as many of the SaaS platforms that we've used in the past. I think there's a probably small group of us that have already realized that, but I think in two thousand twenty-seven it's gonna be glaringly obvious.
And [00:09:00] unfortunately for those particular platforms, they're either gonna have to change and do something completely different, or they're just not gonna be able to exist.
Pablo Gonzalez: agreed. I think it's like innovator's dilemma to the max, right? , If you've built yourself up on, like, the old way of being a platform for someone to... , if you've built yourself up as a car in a world where autonomous driving is gonna happen, right? Like, you're g- you're gonna be a relic.
, Here's how I think that that plays out. That's one of my predictions as well. , I think that PMS systems stop from being, they stop being, like, the thing that employees live in and have to
use, and they just start becoming this, , system of record. It just starts, the PMS will be, your source of financial truth and all these other things that you've already, you know, built in there, and it just becomes this vault.
But it's not gonna be something that you, , work in every single day. Your agents are gonna work inside the PMS system, and they're gonna operate for you. , Beyond that, anything that isn't a [00:10:00] agent, like the point solutions that are separate platforms to also operate in every day, they're dead, like the point solutions are dead. The PMS will stay as, like, this was your original kind of like reference g- book, and then the rest of it is gonna be agents that are, that, that are gonna be doing it, and you are the manager of an agent by the end of 2027.
Stacey Salyer: Okay. Okay. So with that, how many doors do you think like one human would be able to manage?
Pablo Gonzalez: Oh, man. Uh, you know, I haven't
Stacey Salyer: We talked about this a little bit on the cruise. Was that with you? I don't remember. I talked to so many people
Pablo Gonzalez: , I don't This is, this is not a, a number that I've thought deeply on, right? I know, I know that right now , the numbers that, that we think deeply on is, like, how many doors can one person do maintenance for, right? And for us, that number is very clear. It's somewhere between 1 to 2,000 doors , per person that's overseeing maintenance.
I'd be lying to you if I told you that I have enough understanding of [00:11:00] the workflows outside of maintenance to really assign that number. , But if you were to, like, put a gun to my head and make me have to guess, you know, I would think that maintenance is that thing that on a day-to-day basis takes up a lot of time.
, I would assume that leasing is something that happens, , compressed in a, end to end and beginning of a month kinda schedule. , Those, those workflows , are a big part of that. And then everything else , is less, right? , I would, I would say somewhere around, I don't know, 800 doors would be...
800 doors for one person, I think it, it feels like a, a number that rings right if I was to, , take those ratios. But I don't... You tell me, what do you think?
Stacey Salyer: I was thinking, I think by the end of 2027, if all the stars align, I would say 1,000.
Pablo Gonzalez: You think 1,000?
Stacey Salyer: Why not? We'll just throw that out there. We'll see how my my predictions come correct. , So and again, , there's a lot of different things that have to align in order for that to, to happen. .
That's an interesting idea that you see the [00:12:00] PMS system operating as like,, what would it be? Source of, source of truth brain. Would it be like the company brain essentially?
Pablo Gonzalez: I would say it's more like the company encyclopedia. Uh,
Stacey Salyer: Encyclopedia. Okay. You're right? Yeah.
Pablo Gonzalez: less, less so than the decision-making brain
Stacey Salyer: . Okay. And then the agents and then the humans are working outside of it, but the agents are working on, , hosted on one sort of platform, right?
And then they go-- they're deployed into the encyclopedia.
Pablo Gonzalez: Yeah, totally. What I know from being in Venduru and, the amount of experience we've had building agents over the last two years is that , the first desire when people start to build agents is that they're essentially just, like, taking workflows and teaching an agent how to do a workflow.
As you mature in that process, you realize that what you really need to do is create a, , like a decision-making, like a context and decision-making, , [00:13:00] architecture for the agent. , So that instead of just like, "Okay, cool, here's my, here's my reference guide," right? Like whatever the data is inside the PMS, and, "Here's the process I follow," it becomes, "Here's my reference guide, and here's what I know to be true and the way that, you know, the way that I'm supposed to make decisions so that I can execute multiple workflows that I don't have to, , design for you because I've taught you how to think."
That's a threshold that we crossed, , probably about a year ago, but it took us a year and a half , to get to the point where that's, , truly operational and not, really cumbersome. And it took a lot of, putting in those workflows to then derive what the decision-making thing is in order to implement that, right?
The agents, right? So the, the PMS, , becomes like the encyclopedia, the reference guidebook. The agent has the context and, , and decision-making, like judgment to a certain level, , and what to know, h- what they can decide and what not to decide and ask you for help. So they're operating there, and then that has, you know, the, the interface will be [00:14:00] another agent that just is like your chief of staff that reports to you, that interfaces with all the other AIs, and you're making those decisions in a frame, and that's kind of what the PM in the Box is.
Stacey Salyer: Okay. Okay. So this is a debate I have with my friends all the time is-- And again, I think people are thinking when they think, , AI, a lo- , 'cause what is it? , Was it 0.1% of people are really using agentic AI? I don't even know the stats. I feel like I live in this, like, little bubble.
, I know I do. I live in this little bubble that I've created myself, so I just think everybody else is, , doing the
Pablo Gonzalez: A very glamorous bubble, Stacey,
Stacey Salyer: A very-- Yeah, the Salyer bubble. Who wouldn't wanna be in the Salyer bubble? But really the majority of people are not using agentic AI, right? So the understanding of agentic versus, you know, like, "Oh, yeah, I use ChatGPT.
I just, , type in some questions, and it gave me some answers," or, , "It wrote my email to kids' school." , That's not what we're talking about. We are talking about AI agents that are crafted, [00:15:00] built for your business, that are taught , and taught all the things. 'Cause this is what I debate with my friends with, , 'cause they're like, "No, there's no way," you know?
And I tell them, , "Oh yeah, PM could , manage a thousand doors," and then they think I'm really insane. , So that, that's what you're talking about, like that agentic , that's literally thinking, and it's, and it learns how to think, and it learns at such a rapid rate compared to a human, right?
Pablo Gonzalez: , Totally. And it becomes so intuitive that the moment that you experience it, you're like, "Oh, shit. Okay. Yeah. This is the easy button," right? Like up until now, agents have been... like if I was to tell you the story of like what our clients were going through a year ago, or yeah, a, a year ago to nine months ago, it was like, all right, , you've got this agent, now you gotta teach it all these things, you gotta do all this stuff, , and then it starts working for you, and that's quickly changed to like you got this agent, it goes into all your stuff, figures you out, and then like tells you, "Hey, is this right?"
And you're like, ", yeah," or, "No, it's like this," [00:16:00] right? So like it becomes really, really,,, intuitive to the point where, Stacey, like I, I recently got access to, , like a chief of staff type of agent, right? This is not property management related. This is just like me having connections in Silicon Valley and whatever, , that I got this like beta test of this like chief of staff agent.
And when I tell you that within three minutes this thing is already helping me run my life, it's so freaking true. , Like it, it was just like, "Hey, I'm your agent. Give me access to th- this and this, whatever you want." I kinda did a little bit of research on GPT of , how I wanna give it like guardrails and whatnot.
Then I gave it access to my calendar and my emails, only my calendar and my emails, and just by doing that, , oh, and my priorities and like what I want it to help me with. Just by doing that, it's like checking in with me every morning and every afternoon of just , "Hey, this is what you got coming up.
You haven't responded to this. Are you sh- do you want me to draft a response about this?" And it's just getting, just through text, , and I can respond via voice note. , I can just like text to it or whatever, and it's becoming so [00:17:00] freaking good, Stacey, that last week, the, the week before we went on the cruise, it shot me a text on Friday saying, "Hey, you've been crushing it this week with work.
Here's something I've noticed. You asked me to be more, , mindful about how you are with your wife, and I have noticed that we haven't talked about that at all. I don't see it on your calendar. You're about to leave in a week. Do you wanna plan a date on Saturday?" I'm like, "Holy shit."
Stacey Salyer: What?
Pablo Gonzalez: Like, yes.
Stacey Salyer: can, can I have, can I have that agent? Can I have
Pablo Gonzalez: yeah.
I'll, I'll give you... I'm, yeah, I'll send it to you. I'll send it to you. Yeah,
Stacey Salyer: I mean, I'll pay him some money for a good life assistant, 'cause I joke around all the time. Wow.
Pablo Gonzalez: that's like the tip of the spear frontier of what's happening right now to the consumer. That's gonna come to property management. It's not gonna be weird for you to be driving into your office talking to your agent like, "Oh, hey, I'm on the way.
You know, like, is there anything that I can answer while I'm driving?" Or whatever. Like that's, th- that, that is on the table, man, as a PM in a box type of thing by the end of 2027 for sure
Stacey Salyer: Awesome. Okay. , I hope that prediction comes true. I [00:18:00] feel like that is. I feel like in my gut, like we're just gonna will it into the universe.
Pablo Gonzalez: Yeah. Yeah
Stacey Salyer: okay. what, okay, , what else is on your list?
Pablo Gonzalez: Okay,
So like I said,, I think we spent a lot of time talking about the technology. To me, the big aha is what is the effect for you and your business right now, right? , This idea that, that technology's gonna be very, very real. They're gonna be very, very well-funded. , That's gonna be a whole bunch of Facebook ads and a whole bunch of stuff that's gonna be yelling at the people that you normally count on to just bring you the business.
So people are gonna come into the space, and therefore your referral networks and these kinds of things, they're gonna feel real thin once this thing really starts hitting, right? Which I think will be by the end of 2027. , And that means that property managers are going to... , this reality of, "Hey, we're going through a acquisition cycle right now," and you- where people are get- like, getting, like, stratified between , "Do I really [00:19:00] wanna build for this next generation or do I wanna cash out right now?"
, That's gonna become very, very real, and because of that, events in the property management space are gonna be so obvious about, hey, who's acquiring and who's getting acquired?, I think that is gonna be the main purpose of events. , We started to see it this week at Florida State NARPM Cruise, right?
, It was not a big conference, and for the first time ever, I'm like... People are like, "Hey, Pablo, I know that you're a connected guy in the space." "This is what I'm looking to buy. This is what I'm looking to buy. Who do you know?" I had at least five people come up to me in a conference that had maybe 65 property managers there, , doing that.
That has not happened for me at Broker/Owner, at NARPM Nationals, at any of these other things until now. , There's gonna be a boom. , I think , that's an obvious prediction. We're going through a boom, another boom of, , acquisition cycle right now. That's very real, and that means that events at property management, , property management events are gonna be , heavy, heavily like obvious of like who's acquiring and [00:20:00] who's being acquired, and that's where the value's gonna come from for these events.
Stacey Salyer: Interesting. I love that you said that. Yeah, , I w- I would, I know, I would agree with you. , It's actually one thing that I, I teach or co- you know, coach on, is when you go to an event, don't go just as an attendee. Go at, go with a purpose and go with a goal. , That's interesting. Do you think that the event hosts will understand that or see that?
Or do you think it's just like , we're like boots on the ground, I feel , at the events and, , obviously I live in the acquisition world. That's literally all I talk about a- every day. , That's interesting. I wonder if maybe somebody will kinda cue into that.
Pablo Gonzalez: You know, I think that, I think it's a, I think it's something that will be , very valuable to whomever does, right? , I think you told me recently, I don't know what event you told me that you got turned down to speak at 'cause nobody wanted to hear about acquisitions. I think they're fucking idiots, to be perfectly honest, right?
Like, so, so I, I think that that's stupid. I [00:21:00] I would use this podcast and use clips of this to send this to event organizers , or just steal my language or whatever. , You're better at this than I am, right? But, , talking about it from that standpoint, like it was a very clear signal at this last Florida State NARPM event that this is happening and there is a group of, like sharks and a group of minnows, right?
, Now I don't wanna, I don't wanna attribute, like, positive or negative, right? But, like, , there's a group of, "Hey, we're looking to feed," and there's a group of people that are like, "Hey, I wanna get ate," you know?
Stacey Salyer: Right. Well, and yeah, and I mean, even if you, yeah, if you, yeah, feed and eat, but it, even at the same time, like, as a seller, like somebody who is looking to sell. So when you're looking to sell in two thousand twenty-seven, get yourself to a conference and shop around because as a seller, you actually hold the cards.
I mean, there is plenty of buyers. I get hit up all the time from, you know, LinkedIn is one where a lot of the PE guys, you know, they're like, "Oh, you're in acquisition space," and so, you know, they always wanna talk to me and all that kind of good stuff. And then of course, you [00:22:00] know, , the PMC owners that have seen the light and they're like, "Oh, cool.
Yeah, I wanna be an acquirer," , and they're on board. They're going to conferences to have those conversations. So if you do wanna sell, you need to go to a conference and shop around and tell people like, "Hey, I'm, looking to, to get out," and, , set up your meetings. But interesting. Yeah, , I was actually rather shocked when I got that email, , 'cause, you know, I submit to speak to any, you know, all the conferences that are property management related, and, , apparently, they were not interested in acquiring.
I think that they missed out. And, you know, to be fair, , well, no, yeah, they were wrong. Hundred
Pablo Gonzalez: They're wrong.
Stacey Salyer: wrong. You're wrong. So if you're listening, if you're listening, you are wrong and you know who you are. , And
Pablo Gonzalez: can I just say that just from like a third-party perspective, Stacey, I've seen you at all these conferences. You're the one talking about acquisitions, and that session is one of the best attended sessions at all of them. Like, like the, the one at Florida State NARPM was super well attended.
Your one at Broker/Owner was like standing room [00:23:00] only. Like, that's very, very real, and that's matching right now with this idea that we really are going into like another big cycle of acquisitions. Like, well, I wasn't around in 2019 or whatever, right? But like I know that that became a huge topic, and then it went away as everybody, , choked on whatever they ate.
But like it's very clear that it's happening again, , right now. And, , and there was a point I wanted to make on it that I just, ... Yeah. It's just, , it's very clear that that's gonna happen right now. And, , if I'm an event organizer, I would 100% think about how I, you know, market it that way as like a central part of the event.
Stacey Salyer: Yeah. Do you think that they should be marketing more acquisition than AI?
Pablo Gonzalez: Yeah. Yeah,
Stacey Salyer: You're like, "Yeah." Is- did you just say yes 'cause you're on my show, or did you... I'm
Pablo Gonzalez: No, you know what, you know what went through my head, Stacey, is that, - everybody in the world is talking about AI, and, you know, AI brings with it a certain level of anxiety and shame and, like, and [00:24:00] threat, you know, like id- identity threats. Whereas acquisition's all about what's in it for me, I think about, this is what I wanted to say before. I think about our friend that we were talking about at Florist at NARPM. She was saying, "You know, I'm not sure if I'm signing up to transform my company into the AI world or if I just wanna be acquired right now. Stacey, what's my company worth?"
And I think the best advice we gave her was like, "Dude, just take a call with the people trying to acquire you and find out what the market's willing to pay for you right now. Like stop, don't ask me. Like go, go interact with the market." So events, events are a really easy way to do that, I think that that will really attract people more so than the AI cacophony. , it can bleed into my next assumption, in- into my next prediction, but I, you know, like I'll kick it, I'll kick it back to you on what I said there
Stacey Salyer: Yeah, no, I, I agree. I think that, , while, I mean, obviously we've been talking about AI for almost most of this episode so far, I think it's a little much. , And I think they're also putting the wrong people on stage, and they're focusing on the wrong thing when they're [00:25:00] talking about AI.
So I, to be honest, I don't know that there's very many people in the property management space that I would actually pay money to... Actually, there's very few, that I would actually pay money to listen to teach me about AI. Now, there's plenty of people outside the PM space. For example, the one woman that I signed up, I think her name is Kellen, Kellen something.
I'll have to look up her name. she's an expert, and that's what she does. , So yeah, that's one of my hot takes is, uh, I'm not gonna go listen to a peer who has been dabbling and attempting to vibe code for the last 12 months, , teach me.
Pablo Gonzalez: I, I like that, I like that prediction, Stacey. You know how I, I-- That wasn't something that I had on my prediction bingo card here. But what I hear from you is, , in all these categories,, as they come to fruition, people are talking about the technology , and the, you know, the category itself.
At some point, we're just talking about the outcomes and how this new [00:26:00] technology relates to that outcome, right? Like, and that's, you know, like nobody-- At some point, Tesla stopped being an electric car and it just started being, you know, like a great car, right? People really don't talk much about, like, electric cars anymore.
It's just part of, like you're buying a car and, like, what are the outcomes that you want to create? I think it's the same thing here with property management. Like, we want to talk about acquisitions? Okay, cool. Let's talk about acquisitions, and then we can talk about how AI is affecting acquisitions, and how it relates to that, right?
, I, like you, also would pay to see outside experts talk about this stuff. In fact, next week I'm going to Funnel Hacking Live to hear how Russell Brunson has adapted all of his frameworks into, you know, creating better outcomes in his frameworks within AI, right? , I'm more interested in, like, , how that's happening more so than , "Oh, let me teach you how to build an agent."
Because at the end of the day, building an agent, building your own AI, buying AI, whatever, if the agent is well built, you're just gonna ask it to teach you what you're supposed to [00:27:00] do with it. That's kind of learn by doing, and that's it.
Stacey Salyer: , Yeah. No, I love that. Yeah, I think that, um, again, so this is a hot take, not necessarily 2027, but I think now conferences, property management conferences need to start looking outside. Like stop, stop just making it just property management people. Get outside and I think that it will actually elevate our industry far more and a lot faster because we've been in this weird little bubble.
, And again, I'm in the NARPM bubble and, there's a few other conferences, but, , there's so many amazing experts out there, like in marketing and, just some other things that we really have done ourselves a huge disservice by just staying in this little, like these little lanes.
We need more outsiders to come in. That's my opinion
Pablo Gonzalez: Man, I totally agree with that. And I think it's happening inevitably, right? Like, I think [00:28:00] we talked about this at that dinner that we were at on the cruise. The property management NARPM watering hole has such low barriers to entry for influence in comparison to other kind of like vertical watering holes that we're getting a lot of people coming in from the outside.
I'm one example of that, and the ability to like show up with fresh ideas that work across other contexts and then, , contextualize them to the property management context, that's where the next advantage is gonna come from for the, for the person that's like already in property management and stuck in the day-to-day, right?
Like, I totally agree with that.
Stacey Salyer: Yeah. Thank you. Love that. All right. So what, what else is on your list?
Pablo Gonzalez: Okay. Speaking of outcome and how it, how AI relates to the outcome By 2027, we will have a clear understanding of how AI implementation affects valuations. And what I mean by that-- Yeah, what I mean by that is [00:29:00] if you start to look at, and you can correct me if I'm wrong here, but the way that I understand property management company valuations is that you have a certain valuation up until somewhere around 300 doors.
Then you have another valuation somewhere between 300 to 600 doors. Then, like, if you're 1,000 above, you get another valuation, right? And those, those same exact inflection points and valuations, , those are inflection points in, in labor, in the capacity of existing labor to do it. , What AI does is blur those lines, right?
Like these agents, what, you know, what we do at Vendr and stuff like that, you're able to blow through... You know, instead of at like 300 doors you gotta hire another pod of leasing and maintenance people and whatever in order to keep up with the, , task demand, y- AI agents allow you to like scale way beyond that, right?
Like to have much higher door counts beyond that without the risk of bringing in a whole new team, training them, maybe churning through like one set of them, , and getting that really, really right. So [00:30:00] I think that there is gonna be a, there's gonna be a clear bifurcation between , the valuations of companies at certain inflection points if you're heavily l- human labor driven or the bifurcation of, the thresholds of valuations that are, strongly AI first, , capacity designed , for scale with AI to grow.
Stacey Salyer: Yes. I think that's interesting. I think that's an interesting concept. I think that the people buying need to be in that right mindset though. I'm not sure if I see that out there yet though
Pablo Gonzalez: Not yet. This is 27,
Stacey Salyer: Yeah, I know. I know. Although we're, we're in Q4, so we're not that far from '27.
Um,
Pablo Gonzalez: me, let me caveat. All of these predictions I believe will be true by the end of 2027.
Stacey Salyer: By the end of. Okay. Okay, fine.
, That's fair. I mean, obviously we're not gonna be like, "Hey Pablo, it's January 2nd.
Pablo Gonzalez: Tick-tock,
Stacey Salyer: What happened? Everything you said was crap." No, I'm just... [00:31:00] And no, , and that's both of us actually. Yeah, , I would agree with that. Yeah, , I think especially those that are innovative and thinking forward. You know, again, I've talked to some really creative business owners in the last few months, and there are some that are running, running very tight ships, if you will, and,, they s- they've started to think about acquiring and I'm like, it's ripe out there, especially by the end of '27.
There, there's gonna be so many tired people by the end of '27 and going into '28 who are just like, "Ah, I'm done. I'm done being creative. I just wanna sell this business and do something different."
Pablo Gonzalez: Yeah. I think that's true, and I think it's gonna come from the idea that the people that really do figure out this new level of capacity with agents, and this, like, non, you know, human labor dependent growth strategy, , it's gonna be so obvious that, , the way that they're operating at, it's like I'm either [00:32:00] gonna...
right now people are thinking, "Damn, do I really wanna build to that? Do I really wanna compete with that or get acquired?" By the end of 2027, you're gonna be getting your ass kicked by it. And it's, and it might be very few of them, but they're gonna be very loud,
it's gonna be really, really hard , to stay in the game unless you have the gumption to be like, "All right. No, I wanna do this. , I wanna be one of the ones that are doing this." And to your point, you know, it's gonna,, both things will be true. It's gonna come from the acquirer and from the person getting acquired.
, You could, , you could build up your infrastructure to be able to scale with AI at 300 doors and say, "Look, this is where we're at." You're gonna be able to, get acquired in this way. as an acquiree, I'm gonna be much easier to fold into your process because I'm already there and you're already there.
Just like the acquirer is like, "Well, I've already created this. I know how to acquire you and bring it into my process," right? Like, both of those things are gonna be heavily driven by, how you are set up to grow. , And then the question is, do you actually wanna go do the growth yourself or do you wanna, [00:33:00] you know, like sell into the bigger pie?
But I think that, that intersection is really gonna create better multiples and they're gonna be tangibly measurable,
Stacey Salyer: Yep, I agree. Yeah, I agree 100%, especially for those , that get, it going pretty early. , Yeah, especially, you know, the valuations and all that. , Okay. Okay, so what,, what else do you have on your list?
Pablo Gonzalez: Okay. If you extrapolate that, right? , I think , we've been measuring property management companies. Um, door count has kind of been the best, the best kind of like measuring stick for property management companies. , New categories create new categories, and it's not just of business models and technologies, but also of, , metrics, right?
, I think that the insights that we are getting right now at Vendor Room that allow us to see things that we couldn't see before, , makes me think that by the end of 2027, we're gonna have different ways of measuring property management companies [00:34:00] well beyond door count and well beyond whatever the, you know, NARPM accounting standards or performance standards or whatever those things are called.
We're gonna be, we're gonna be very able to tangibly measure, , a certain level of like operational capacity, ease of growth and, like different things like that. And it's essentially gonna be, how much are you valuing yourself on the ability to do tasks versus how much you're able to val- value yourself on the ability to do, , to deliver outcomes, , I don't have that one fully cooked, but I think that there's gonna be a new KPI, a new metric that's gonna be like, "Okay, I'm a, yes, I'm a this many door company with this much more capacity to grow without having to do XYZ," or, "I'm a this, you know, like this level of company that can create these kinds of returns or..."
I think these, these ways that we compare each other are gonna get much more specialized and much more specific around outcomes, not just around size.[00:35:00]
Stacey Salyer: Yeah, I like that. , I would agree with that, , as we move into '27 and move forward, and as, as you p-pointed out a couple times, by the end of 2027. , I, I like that because right now I feel like we're still in the old school model, , but there's like we're trying to dip our toe in to like the new school and like there's, , there's like resistance and all this stuff and , not everybody understands it.
And I think, yeah, a lot of it's probably gonna be outdated and antiquated. So I wonder too, just like around like the conference stuff, I'm a tried and true NARPM member, but I'm going to AppFolio Future for the first time at the end of September. So I'm excited to attend that 'cause I've heard it's very good.
It's very like tech, tech heavy. Okay. Okay. , I'll be able to report back when I'm, when I'm done. But I'm wondering if, ... And I guess this is just kind of a random thought, but are like leaders at NARPM looking at [00:36:00] things like this? Are they having these same discussions or are they just still so focused on like the old school way, , of running a business?
Because, you know, they do have some great standards, I mean, like the accounting standards, and I think they came out with some other new standards.
Pablo Gonzalez: Mm-hmm
Stacey Salyer: But yeah. No, I like that. I mean, really, I think that, uh, if we could get some minds in a room and get that big think tank going and think way outside the box, we could come up with some new ways to measure our business, new KPIs
Pablo Gonzalez: Yeah. You know what's interesting when you say that, Stacey? I think that NARPM is vulnerable to the same thing that AppFolio is vulnerable to, right? , I think they are the incumbent of what events are and the people that have been making decisions within events for a long time and whatnot. , So I think that there is a, I think that there is a very real risk of the gravity of the past pulling NARPM leadership back towards, like, how we've always done it [00:37:00] versus, you know, really rethinking who we have on stage, what we talk about, all these different types of things.
That being said, I find it very encouraging that NARPM is going through this transition to NARPM 2.0. I find it very encouraging who this new incoming national board of NARPM folks are, people like Justin Anderson and Tracy Strike and, you know, like these types of people. I think , it's very, very encouraging to see that kind of like leadership going in, , who I think , if NARPM has a chance to not fall prey to the innovator's dilemma, , you know, they're taking all the right actions right now at the right moment to not fall prey to that.
That being said, They still are gonna feel the weight of having to serve this, , vocal minority that exists inside of NARPM that has been getting fed by, , their ideas being listened to for a long time, and I think that in itself is gonna be very, very risky, so we'll see how they navigate that.
Stacey Salyer: Yeah. No, I look forward to, uh, seeing how they navigate that. We'll have to have , a repeat [00:38:00] of this at the end of 2027, we'll have to do that. We'll have to see how our predictions came about.
Pablo Gonzalez: yeah. Heck yeah
Stacey Salyer: I know. I hope they're blown out of the water. I hope things happen that I'm like, "Oh my gosh, we didn't even talk about that.
How cool is that?"
Pablo Gonzalez: I feel pretty confident in the stuff that I've said really happening. I don't think, I think a lot of this stuff is stuff that I'm already... , you know I love Gary Vee, right? And Gary Vee's like, "You know why people think I'm good at predicting this? 'Cause I don't guess, 'cause I'm really talking about things that are already happening that people just don't understand are happening yet."
I feel that way about the things that I've said so far, right? , I have a decent amount of insight into, , the trajectory of these things that are happening and a decent amount of insights into having been, , you know, on the riding shotgun with Vendero through us kind of like leading this agentic AI transformation inside the space.
I know the speed at which this stuff really starts to come down at this point, and I think it's only gonna get faster , and more standard when more and more people are going through it. So, I'm feeling pretty good about these predictions so far.
Stacey Salyer: Yes. Yes, I agree. You're, you're very cool like [00:39:00] Gary Vee, 100%.
Pablo Gonzalez: Thanks. I
Stacey Salyer: I wanna meet Gary Vee too. I wonder if he would also answer my LinkedIn message. Probably not.
Pablo Gonzalez: never, I've never gotten an answer from him on a DM or anything like that, but he's surprisingly, or at least he had been in the past, surprisingly easy to like find and talk to if you understand , his rhythm, right? Like I think I just hacked how Gary Vee does events and his rhythm, so I've been able to meet him, , like five times.
Stacey Salyer: Oh, , you're cool. So I need to learn that too. You- That's awesome. Oh, that's cool. So what... Do you have anything else on, on your list? Any hot takes, like
Pablo Gonzalez: This is a
Stacey Salyer: wanna talk
Pablo Gonzalez: This is a hot take. I don't know if this happens by the end of 2027, but I think this is where we're headed for sure. , There's gonna be two types of ways to compete. One is gonna be low cost, right? This, these PM in a boxes, this like massive scale that these acquirers, right?
Like there's gonna be, there's gonna be big, big, scale around [00:40:00] it like it hasn't been before. That's gonna lower cost for those folks. There's gonna be like the PM in a boxing that's gonna lower cost as well. And then there's gonna be elite advice, You can call that being an asset manager or however you wanna like wrap it around there, but like I really think the difference is gonna be price and advice.
And you're gonna wanna market yourself in one of those two buckets. So like you're either gonna be like competing on like, "Nah man, I can do it for less. Don't worry about it. I got you. This is just, this has all been commoditized and like these are the systems now. I don't need all these people." Or you could say, "Listen, I have this, you know, this perspective on these things that are happening, and I'm gonna help you make much, much, much better decisions because I'm gonna be here for you , and this is my skill set of what I can advise on."
So property management companies will be separated into marketing themselves in two buckets, , price and advice
Stacey Salyer: Price and advice. So why can't you do both? You could have two tiers, right? , You could be like, [00:41:00] "Yo, you want my super, like, cheapo tier?" Like, are you a cheapo? Just needs it done.
Pablo Gonzalez: Mm-hmm
Stacey Salyer: Or do you wanna work with me as the elite person? So it's almost like the, the coaches, right?
So like the, the guru coaches or the, , not gurus, like, , Hermosi, right? Like if you wanna work with Her- Hermosi, like for real him, , what is it, 100K for a day? Something like that, probably at least. But if you wanna work with his team, it's 10,000, something like that. You could do something like that 'cause I, I don't disagree with you, and I like the word elite, elite advice versus asset manager.
One, because asset, like I s- I feel like I'm calling myself an ass. Which and two, I just don't agree with the word asset manager. That's my hot take. , I think that we just put ourselves in a weird liability area for that, so don't do that, people. but I like elite advice, especially elite. , Yeah, I mean, you could have [00:42:00] two different tiers, so you could essentially run businesses simultaneously.
What do you think? Your face
Pablo Gonzalez: Yeah, I, listen, , I think the middle's gonna be roadkill, right? Like I, I could see how that's what you're doing, but I think as a strategy, you're gonna wanna really pull to one or the other, right? Like \ I don't think that there's...\, there's no doubt that if you're a, like a, an elite price person, you're also gonna be a, like a, an elite low price person.
\, You can also say, "Well, because of my scale, I now have all this data and all this breadth of information that I can wrap into one-on-one advice and, \, and give you some of that." But I think in order to compete in the low price market, you're gonna have to be so focused on being the low price person that you're not gonna have time to do the other thing.
\, The same for the elite advice piece. \ It's not gonna be cheap to be the elite advice person. Like you're gonna have to, whether it's time or treasure, you're gonna have to be really fucking good at the niche of the advice that you are giving so that you can really, really stand behind these outcomes that you're [00:43:00] delivering, 'cause the rest is gonna get commoditized.
Stacey Salyer: Interesting. You don't think I could build a bunch of AI agents that could, \, run my cheapo organization and then here I am at the higher elite? You know, and I only take on so many clients. I don't know. \
Pablo Gonzalez: Yeah. \, Maybe. I just don't think it's gonna be you building those, those AI agents that, that's doing it, right? \, Like I think you're gonna have to be super seeped \, in the expertise that you're gonna be, that you're gonna be giving and not \, heads down in the operation that is gonna comp- continue to shave that margin down in order to continue to compete with someone that's obsessed with that piece that can grow to a massive scale
Stacey Salyer: \. So what do you think about that? \, The property managers out there doing vibe coding and trying to build their own stuff. What do you think about that?
Pablo Gonzalez: I think it makes a lot of sense to, \, to wanna do that, right? Like I think, \, I think we are in the, in a moment of transition, and moments of transition, I think the people that win, [00:44:00] at first they look like tinkerers, right? Like the, the, 'cause you're, you're transitioning so you know the latest thing and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
But I think the person that wins long term is someone that's tinkering long enough to get an earned insight that you go all in on. So it's cool to tinker right now, right? \ Go out there, build your own tools, \, at least to the point where you can really recognize when like you shouldn't be building something versus you can build something or, or whatever you're gonna do.
At least until the point where you have a real thesis on what your org chart should look like, labor versus AI versus whatever. \, And then you should go all in on refining that thesis \, and doing that instead of like... \, or maybe you go all in on like becoming a bot builder, whatever you want, right?
\ I Think there, I think right now is a really good time to be tinkering, \, because tinkering is iteration, but at some point you're gonna have to really commit and go because \, the faster that you commit to a thesis, the faster you're gonna get there, , with a true North Star, not just like a, not just like, "I'm gonna com- continue to sample [00:45:00] everything."
Stacey Salyer: Right. Yeah, I think that's fair. I think that's even, even what I've done to build my consulting business, right? So I mean, I've been pretty much a one-woman show since 2025, and, and really obviously before that I laun- you know, I built out my, you know, started building out my platform before that.
, And for example, my marketing, right? I've been the only one. , I create all my own marketing, write all my own copy, all the newsletters are me, all, all the things. And it is a lot of work, and I am now at the point where I'm like, "I'm gonna have to make a decision," , by probably early 27 and start hiring those pieces out.
But I now feel very confident that I know exactly what I want, I know exactly what my voice is, and I know when I hire somebody for that, , what I'm looking for. So I would think it's kinda similar to like building the AI agents and tinkering around. , You know, and maybe, maybe somebody finds that they actually prefers doing that, and they sell their company, you know?
Or whatever. But, , yeah. So [00:46:00] yeah, I could see that. Okay. That's cool
Pablo Gonzalez: , And Stacey, I would say that you have built a business based on elite advice. And building a business based on elite advice so far, I don't know what's in the future for you, right? If you decide to become an operator in the, in the near future, you're gonna have built this platform of elite advice underneath it that's gonna help you.
You know, like if you decide to go buy a property management company, , good luck everybody else who is trying to sell to somebody else that, that is acquiring them, right? Because you have clearly differentiated yourself on being able to like help someone being acquired or acquire, go do that, right?
Like, and I think that'll be a major, major differentiation point for you. But I say all that to say that if you are building a business on elite advice, tinkering is part of that piece, and you're never gonna wanna let that part go. So you're pro- you're probably , even if you have other people
People are gonna be like thinking about different marketing things for you to like expand into. But your [00:47:00] ability to iterate through refining your message and how you put that out and how you continue to do all that type of stuff is an investment into the elite advice moat that you have built for yourself, whether it's gonna be an elite advice consulting business or an elite advice operations business in the future.
Stacey Salyer: Yes. Yes. Well, thank you. Thank you. Yeah, it's been fun. , I love it. Super fun. And yes, I am, I am moving into acquiring as well. So I, I, I've started to talk about that a little bit out there. , So yes, I am getting back in the game and, , working on acquiring. And honestly, I think it's really cool when the teacher can also show how it's done in real time.
, So it's not, you know, I'm not some washed-up consultant, some old professor walking in with a briefcase from 1985. , You know, and I-- and it really helps me actually become a better coach, consultant, teacher, , as I continue to do it. Because I always tell people it's just like buying or selling a [00:48:00] home.
Every transaction's the same, but every single one is different, and you learn something through every single one and every single conversation. So
Pablo Gonzalez: That to me, Stacey, is the genius in your strategy, right? Like how much the thing that you've become a lead advice on actually feeds the bigger picture of something that you can build to massive operational scale. So before our friend that's like listening to us thinks we're not really besties, yeah, I know that you're going into acquisitions.
I just didn't know how much you're like telling people. But like welcome to hell, everybody, right? You prepare to be slayed. Um, 'cause your ability to attract deal flow based on this like giant bat signal that you've put out and proven over and over again is gonna strategically vertically integrate very, very well into your operational layer, , and what you're gonna grow at scale here
Stacey Salyer: Yeah. Thank you. Yes. Welcome, welcome to Salyer's world.
Pablo Gonzalez: Yeah.
Stacey Salyer: I may do some more photo shoots with a sword. I don't know. I really did do photo shoots with a sword.
Pablo Gonzalez: I know, I know[00:49:00]
Stacey Salyer: So people listening are like, "Wow." Yeah, so go to my social media, like, subscribe, follow, do all the things, and you can be part of my world. This was fun. I love doing 2027 predictions and some hot takes mixed in there. , I thank you so much for coming on the show again. I know you were on earlier this year.
We were just talking about straight up I- AI earlier and maintenance. So, , thanks again for your time. It was awesome
Pablo Gonzalez: would you, how would you rate my predictions? I wanted to, I, I wanted to make a point to come in here and not just be like open conversation. I wanted to come in here with like bop, bop, bop, bop, bop, ready to go. What do you, what do you think?
Stacey Salyer: Oh, rating your predictions? I mean, I think I would say, I mean, I, I think that you're pretty spot on., I-- What were we calling it? I was calling it cheapo. I was calling it the cheapo,
Pablo Gonzalez: The, the price or advice
Stacey Salyer: price or advice. I don't know if we'll see that super hard by the end of '27, probably by the end of '28, I [00:50:00] would rate that, but I think otherwise, I think we're good.
We're spot on. you're very well like in, you're very well connected to what's going on, so I know you're also like not a bullshitter. So it's... You're very authentic
Pablo Gonzalez: I-- Thank you. Thank you. , Yeah, I think part of it is, part of it is being connected to what's going on. I think the rest of it is , like being deeply fanatical about how the brain works and how people make decisions , and kind of like group think, and stuff like that is, is, is where I think it, where I think it differentiates, like how do you take noise from signal and what's gonna come out of it?
So I, I, I just wanna say thank you 'cause I've really enjoyed going through this exercise to prepare for this. I, I feel like m-most of the time you and I just pop in and like, "It's content." , This is this is a little bit of extra preparation which I've, , which was a really good, uh, experience for me, man.
So thank you for having me on.
Stacey Salyer: Yeah, of course. Thanks for being here. And, , thank you to my listeners for tuning in. And, , as, , always, Pablo's contact information will be in the show notes, so feel free to reach out to [00:51:00] him. He, like I said, is amazing to talk to, whether you have an idea or want elite advice. He's part of the elite crowd.
And, , hopefully we'll see you next time. Have a great day
Outro: Thanks for listening to the Stacey Salyer show. Here's the deal. You can read about acquisitions anywhere, but you can't learn acquisitions from someone who's done it the way I have as a buyer, a seller, and from the corporate side evaluating hundreds of companies. That's why I need you to subscribe and share this with someone in your network who needs to hear it.
And if this episode landed, leave a five star review. It's how more PM owners find the only acquisition expertise in the space that comes from all sides of the table. And while you're at it, grab my Acquisition Readiness checklist on my website at staceysalyer.com. Then when you're ready to move from Growth Thinking to Growth Building, explore the Built to Acquire program.
Don't leave it on the table. See you on the next [00:52:00] episode.
