Intro: [00:00:00] Welcome to the Stacey Salyer Show, the podcast for property management leaders ready to think bigger about growth. I'm Stacey Salyer and the only acquisition strategist in this industry who sat on all sides of the m and a table. I've been the buyer acquiring a 370 door competitor during COVID using seller financing.
I've been the seller building and exiting a seven figure business. And I've been the corporate evaluator as director of acquisitions, assessing over hundreds of companies nationally. That means I know exactly what you're thinking, what you're missing, and what actually works when it comes to buying and integrating in this space.
On this show, we dig into acquisitions as a real business tool. Not luck, not someday. You'll learn positioning, strategy, numbers, and integration from someone who's actually done it all. Let's go.
Stacey Salyer: Welcome to the Stacey [00:01:00] Salyer Show, where we talk about buying and selling property management companies. And today I have two returning guests. , They've each been on my show individually, but I wanted to bring them on together, , for a few reasons. One, both of your episodes have been in my top two downloads.
You guys actually jockey back and forth between number one and number two for downloads. And also, we are going to be on a panel next week in Las Vegas at the NARPM National Convention. So we really wanted to get together on this show and kind of talk a little bit about what we're going to be talking about, maybe pre-answer some questions.
And, if you're going to be at the NARPM National event, then of course we would love to have you jump into the room. So, Without further ado, I would love to introduce, , Jordan Coleman with Live Oak Bank and Patrick Hurley with PM Broker Group. So welcome.
Jordan Coleman: Thanks for having
Patrick Hurley: See ya
Stacey Salyer: So Jordan, I'll start with [00:02:00] you. Question: Have you seen an increase, , in people doing acquisitions in property management companies, like year over year, or has this year felt different, or do you see 2027 being a little bit more active compared to last year?
Jordan Coleman: I think as a whole for, for us at Live Oak, it's grown a little bit year over year since we started this industry, , and this vertical. However, I will say, , we started really getting into the industry about three years ago, and it takes a little bit of time to get into the industry, people to kind of recognize who we are, , that we do finance acquisitions.
So I would say from Live Oak Bank's perspective, the acquisition and financing in the industry has grown year over year. , But there's also a couple different factors from Live Oak's perspective that's gonna put a big play into that. , Patrick may have a different story since he's kind of [00:03:00] been in the industry, but, , for us, I would say year over year it has increased, , acquisition in, financing-wise in the property management space
Stacey Salyer: , Patrick, what are you seeing?
Patrick Hurley: I don't know that I would, specifically identify increase. You know, the interest level has stayed pretty consistent. , from the brokerage side, what I've seen is, , a lot of buyers kinda tightening up a little bit. There's still tons of interest out there, but when you start sorting through 'em, they're wanting to pay different multiples.
They're basing it off of different things. They're hedging their bets more. , You know, there's less... I mean, it, it falls largely in line with the real estate market too, right? You know, the great houses still sell for great prices, but, you know, the, the buyers are a little more discerning when it comes to what their options are, what they're gonna spend their money on, what risk they're willing to take, , things like that.
I think that the number of deals is still pretty consistent, , but the, uh, the interest level is up, but also, , along with the pickiness, if you will. Mm-hmm.
Stacey Salyer: Okay. Okay.
Patrick Hurley: know? So I don't [00:04:00] know if Jordan runs into that too. They're probably underwriting more deals. You know, maybe you have some that, , fewer that actually close.
You're still closing the same number, but more that might fall through or the due diligence could be a little more of a process there.
Stacey Salyer: I was gonna say too, so Jordan, like along those lines, what is something that would make a deal fall apart, like through your, your services?
Jordan Coleman: Yeah. So, an acquisition and a transaction, there's, there's multiple parts that fall into it, and there's, there's two separate parties. , It's a buyer and a seller, and a buyer has a big, , weight on how this acquisition's gonna look like, just like the seller. Is the seller in the day-to-day?
Do they have the staffing to support it? Does how they're running the business mirror what the buyer's looking for? , So there's a lot that comes into an acquisition, and it falls equally on buyer and seller. One buyer may not be the right fit for the seller, and vice [00:05:00] versa. , So obviously a buyer and a seller finding the right business to buy and sell to one another is, a big impact and factor.
, One buyer may be able to afford a little bit more than another buyer. , , there's a lot of different factors that come into play, but to me it's, finding the right buyer and right seller and having them connected is, is gonna be that first big fit of trying to find an acquisition and trying to acquire something.
Stacey Salyer: Okay.
Patrick Hurley: I actually- Patrick, you mentioned that the... Oh, go ahead. No, I was gonna say, I actually
Stacey Salyer: that they're kind of... Oh, go ahead
Patrick Hurley: wrote a, an article not too long ago about that exact topic, about finding it's the right buyer. Just affording it is step one, but all of the other stuff that goes into it, you know, that, that needs to be aligned to, to have a successful transaction. So yeah, I completely agree.
Stacey Salyer: Yeah, and I know in my programs that's what I teach. The number one thing is, you know, using that buy box worksheet. I know I think I've shared it with both of you. I know I've shared it out, , on the internet and shared it in newsletters, and [00:06:00] that's what I teach primarily is you need to know, like as the buyer, where you're going, right?
Like what's your roadmap? ' it's really hard. When I've talked to people in the past and they're like, "I want to buy a property management company." And I'm like, "Okay, well, where?" " Well, there's 10 different states I'm open to and, , anything from 50 to 500 doors or whatever." I'm like, "Whoa, whoa, whoa."
That, that's... You know, you probably need to narrow it down a little bit, you know, depending on like what you already have, right? So are you, are you guys encountering realistic buyers, or are you kind of getting more of the like, like what that, that kind of conversation I'm having?
Jordan Coleman: I would say for us, it's all over the place. I mean, we have a lot of conversations of just like you described, of people saying, , "I've managed one property and I live in California, but I'd like to buy in New York, and I've got this private equity financed backed," and they really have no idea how to operate the business, what comes into the business.
[00:07:00] And we have a lot of conversations of individuals that it makes sense for us, and there's a little bit of a less risk because their buy box is realistic. They understand what they're doing and the path that they're taking. And so for us, , you know, again, going back to the buyer will dictate a lot of what we can get comfortable with.
Understanding, like you're saying, and having that roadmap is a, a huge key factor to the bank because, you know, we could have a very high level conversation 100 times, if it doesn't make sense to the bank and you don't really know what you're looking to do, it's gonna be very hard for us to, you know, proceed forward in any way
Patrick Hurley: I get a lot of unrealistic inquiries. You know, by the time I, by the time I start working with or seriously talking to somebody, I mean, we've gotten on the same page and, you know, I, I try to vet those people out pretty quickly. , You know, I know you work, exclusively with buyers.
I help, you know, connect folks, , during that process, but work, with sellers. I'm representing, [00:08:00] you know, the company trying to get that. So I, you know, I have a lot of people inquiring about businesses that I'll have, or they'll be the, the, the very famous and common, "If you ever find a great deal, then let me know," type thing.
So I, I get that all the time. "If you ever find somebody that's selling for one times SDE, let me know." That's like, "If you ever find anybody giving a house away, let me know. I'll take it," you know, type thing. So yeah. So we, we sort
Stacey Salyer: funny? Yeah, I think you and I get the same DMs. It's the same thing. Like, "Oh, hey, if you ever hear, , this great deal." I'm like, "That's not how it works." , And I think I, I would love to talk about that because that's one... , probably the number one question I get, and I don't know about you guys, is like, how do I even find a property management company?"
A lot of times they're probably contacting you, Patrick, thinking that you have, , this magic hidden list, which would make zero sense for your business, 'cause obviously you're representing sellers. You want to get things sold. , So I hear all the time, like, "Well, how do I do it?" And I'm like, "Well, it's called good old-fashioned work." [00:09:00] And
Patrick Hurley: Driving around, you know, it's uh
The conversation we have a lot of times, if the seller's saying, "Hey, if you find this per- sky and hits you, then let me know, and, and vice versa. Buyers say that about sellers. , So it's always about building that network. , But yeah, the, the fact is it takes good ol'- old-fashioned hard work to try to identify the right people who are both ready, willing, and able, you know, on both sides.
and that's, just kind of the name of the game. I know you're working with people to try to identify those. , I do have, you know, some good activity. Actually, it's picked up from some sellers recently. But again, it- initial stages, dealing with the things that Jordan wants us to hash out ahead of time is, right, get their finances in line.
Trying to make sure their accounting is, is, where it needs to be, and that they're ready to identify the right person that, you know, [00:10:00] that you might work with, either during and after, , a transaction there. There's a lot of moving parts on that stuff.
Stacey Salyer: Yeah. Yeah.
Well, I love to talk about the future, and I love to do 2027 predictions and some hot takes.
Are You guys up for that?
Patrick Hurley: ready?
Stacey Salyer: Well, I love to just, like, throw things out there, but I would love
to
get an idea from both of you. What's, what's maybe one kind of hot take 2027 prediction that you have about the, buying and selling market?
Patrick Hurley: I'm going to make Jordan go first
Jordan Coleman: Wow, I was just going to say I'll let Patrick go first.
Stacey Salyer: And it could be a hot take too. Maybe something that's like comes through all the time that's irritating, and we can get out there and just say, "Hey, , here's some great info that you, you need to know." Something like that
Jordan Coleman: I mean, I, I think it's just, it's so hard to determine. I think there's so many factors that play into , how the future in the business acquisition side [00:11:00] and economy as a whole are gonna look. I mean, I know rates just recently increased from the, the Fed. , that plays a little bit of a role on what acquisitions can potentially look like, , as an industry as a whole.
So don't know if that directly answers your ques- question. Maybe I'll, I'll take 10 minutes and really think about it. Before we hop off, I'll have a really good hot take for you
Stacey Salyer: That's okay. Yeah
Patrick Hurley: I'll tell you what
Stacey Salyer: Okay
Patrick Hurley: I
I don't know if, if educated or sophisticated would be the correct word, , but basically for the buying and selling process, people to have those realistic expectations of the requirements on both sides. , And hopefully that conversations like this can help them try to engage with the correct professional to be able to get themselves positioned to buy or sell, right?
I think it, , will not only, , benefit the industry as a whole kind of raising the bar, but it'll make those transactions much [00:12:00] more pleasant for everybody involved if everybody's kind of rowing in the same direction, if I'm a seller and I know what's gonna be required of that buyer or realistically expected of that buyer and that buyer comes in doing the same thing, so there's give and take, , I hope that that's one thing I-- like more of a standard that I would love to see us be able to create in the industry.
, And I think it's through education. , There's obviously gonna be factors like the rates, , that impact that. There could be, legal impacts in different states, you know, or even municipalities that impact, you know, different things. But as a whole, us continuing to raise the bar, I think we've been on a good trend and a good track, and I'm hoping that will really continue to really, you know, enhance the industry as a whole.
What
Jordan Coleman: Well, and I think to, to-
kind of continue on that, that path and that train, if, like you said, expectations, sometimes I feel like individuals hear, you know, evaluation of XML and that's what they have, and it's [00:13:00] not necessarily realistic in what , we're valuing , and viewing as a, a normalized structure.
And , it's harder to buy and sell when people hear one thing because this circumstance is completely different. And that's an anomaly, and we need to focus a little bit more on what's realistic on the pool that you're looking at
Stacey Salyer: Yes. Yeah, I think that is a really good statement. I actually like what both of you said. , I feel like, and again, maybe it's just 'cause I'm in it every day, I feel like there's a lot more chatter about buying and selling, and people are working harder to get educated on both sides. , You know, I think it is helpful that, , we all get together and, you know, obviously I have my show and all that, , is out there.
, And then on that point too, Jordan, I think there's a lot of chatter of , "Oh, hey, so and so sold to the big guys for some [00:14:00] crazy multiple." But there's always a... when the bigger companies are involved, at least from my experience, there's other deals that, that are part of that, that come into play.
You know, whether it's like maybe some equity in that business or whatever, and it's kind of all counted together. It's, not always what it may seem, does that make sense? You know. I think that the average buyer and seller, which would be the majority, just need to be pretty realistic. So what, what kind of multiples are you seeing?
Like, what, what is kind of coming through, either through both of you, like through the bank or through sellers
Jordan Coleman: Just having an average multiple is-- You can't answer that question. I-- There's so much that dictates what cash flow looks like, what a buyer can afford, what the seller can afford, how the seller's operating, what's the buyer's experience, that there's not a range that we say, "This is what you need to shoot for."
You need to make sure you understand what you're buying. [00:15:00] You need to understand the concentration. You need to understand is, you know, other streams of revenue included in this business. , What does the buyer's experience look like? I would say for an average buyer, there's not a, a multiple that you're striving for.
But I would say for a business that is selling to, you know, a larger corporation, it, that, that does kind of fluctuate what an average buyer and seller could potentially afford.
Patrick Hurley: My input on, on multiple will basically be more of a don't base it on blank. Don't base it on revenue, right? Stop using revenue multiples when it comes to, you know, a hypothetical evaluation for a company, whether you're a buyer or a seller, right? Get it down to true earnings, true discretionary earnings to the operator, right?
Because that's also what's gonna matter to George and the bank. You know, you should be worried about... A-and it's impacted directly by an owner's involvement and things like that. You know, [00:16:00] if you've got a one, one man or a woman show that's, you know, somehow generating five hundred thousand dollars a year in revenue, and they're keeping it all because they're doing everything, that's not realistic when you go to the next, you know, owner of that
So you've got to be able to normalize for true expected operational costs and things like that. So yeah, that's probably the number one that I get is, "Well, what-- You know, I, I make-- we, we earn half a million dollars a year, so it should be worth two times that or something like that." I'm like, "Well, what do you put in your pocket?"
And they say, "Hundred and fifty thousand dollars." I'm like, "Okay. You know, I don't think anybody's gonna pay you a million, you know, for a company that's a hundred and fifty thousand dollars profit," you know, type thing. So just if, if we can encourage people to get away from a, gross revenue, , mindset when it comes to a, the value of a company, I think that would do everybody a huge favor , to get everybody more realistic on both sides.
So you're, you're one of the-
Stacey Salyer: [00:17:00] SDE, the seller discretionary earnings
Patrick Hurley: I always, I always try to get down to an SDE. largely because it's a little more, in my opinion, universal than even an EBITDA because there's gonna be a lot of companies that don't get down to calculating EBITDA. You know, an SDE for the average, to your point, you know, if what I think we've discussed kind of industry averages and it's somewhere around three hundred units, three fifty, you know, somewhere in there, , I don't think anybody's sitting down going, "What's my EBITDA?"
They're-- You know, that could be a owner-operator but with a team or something like that. And so getting to that SDE number is more realistic, but you can apply the same thing to a larger, you know, to a larger operation as well
Stacey Salyer: I agree. Yeah, that's, that's what I teach in, , my program is really looking at the SDE. , Because again, every buyer and seller is so different and, you know, they're g- they need to look at that organization and see who's doing what and all the things you just [00:18:00] said. So love that. Yeah.
Jordan Coleman: Curious, h-how do you guys talk buyers or sellers down from unrealistic expectations? PG
Stacey Salyer: Yes. Is this gonna be a hot take? We want, I, I like some good spicy stuff on my show, so let's go
Patrick Hurley: I just determine fairly quickly, are we willing and able to look at the numbers and get down to having a conversation, or are you stuck at a number? If somebody's reasonable, I'll always talk through with them, , get the financial walkthrough and go, "Hey, I don't see how you could pay this based on that," you know.
, And then we're having a dialogue with, you know... If somebody's like, "No, no, this is just what it is, and here's my financials on the back of this napkin," and stuff like that, take it easy. Been a good time, but you can tell how that transaction's gonna go [00:19:00] the entire way through, , type thing. So yeah, mine's kind of red light, green light, to be honest with you.
I don't do a whole bunch of talking them down.
Stacey Salyer: Yeah, same. I think Patrick and I are probably pretty similar. I-- And maybe it's as I get older, my, my time is limited, , let's just be real realistic and, if you can't be realistic, then there's no point in continuing the conversation. I don't need to try and convince you, right? And that's-- that is just not...
So what I teach is basically that method, right? So again, it back to that buy box and those, you know, initial conversations. , If you meet a potential seller and they're completely unrealistic, then just walk away. Go to the next one, you know, just keep making the phone calls. There'll be another
Patrick Hurley: Conversely, a-and what I was gonna add to that is, like you said, they're not gonna convince me of the, worth either, like of a company. You know, it's not like... You can keep talking, but the numbers are the only thing that someone is gonna care about when it comes to [00:20:00] the actual value. Now, there's the buyer fit and the correct buyer, there's a lot more intangibles, right?
But when it comes to the actual value of that company, the numbers have to be there to support, , whatever emotion falls away from it, dreams, whatever, whatever you wanna call it, right? It's, it's all about those numbers. And then is there a good fit, you know, type of thing.
But if the numbers aren't there, it's kind of a non-starter type of thing. So yeah, I'm pretty black and white. , I'm not gonna say my age in-impacts that. It's just kind of my personality. , And yeah, most of the people that I talk to that work with me would, would say the same thing, kind of no nonsense.
, We're just gonna cut through the shit and shoot straight.
Stacey Salyer: Yeah, unfiltered and, yeah, authentic. I mean, there's no reason to bullshit somebody. What a waste of time, right?
Jordan Coleman: Mmmhmm
Stacey Salyer: So yeah. What about you, Jordan? Do you encounter, , people who book meetings with you and they have completely unrealistic expectations?
Jordan Coleman: Yeah, I mean, we look at cash flows all the time where sellers are asking for something that the business can't afford. And, kind of the same approach. [00:21:00] We educate the buyer of why it's way out of range. And, you know, typically those companies are available for sale for about six months, and you see it again in, in purchase price consistently starts to decrease because it's unrealistic
Stacey Salyer: What's the smallest deal you've ever done? Oh, do you have a...
Patrick Hurley: Jump on that real quick, 'cause I will throw that out there. Sellers have got to keep that in mind. Again, it parallels the real estate market, right? This is not the market where you overprice something and then, "Oh, we can always adjust," because you'll see a drop and then somebody's gonna try to take advantage of you.
You price it correctly the first time where you realistically think that it will sell, and then maybe you get multiple, you know, people interested in it, and then you have your pick of a buyer to get the best buyer instead of just going, "Great, finally somebody wants to buy my company." And that's what you'll do in six months, twelve months if you're not [00:22:00] approaching it correctly.
And buyers, I mean, if I'm a buyer on that, I'm almost chomping the bit for that person that's overpriced because I'm like, "Yeah, I'll talk to them in twelve months, and then I'm gonna, I'm gonna get mine. I'm gonna get my pound of flesh out of that deal," , type thing, because then somebody's gonna be desperate, and that's what I try to tell my, my clients is, "You have to approach this correctly, and this is not, the bartering.
You're not at the flea market trying to get the best deal you can on something," right? Put something out there that's quality, present it well, and you will get the buyers, but it has to be at an, an appropriate value
Jordan Coleman: I would 100% agree and preach that all day long
Patrick Hurley: Yeah.
Stacey Salyer: Yes.
Patrick Hurley: It's a tough conversation, right? It's a tough conversation to have. , Let me rephrase that. It's easy for me to have. It's tough for them to hear sometimes, , my intention is never to bust anybody's bubble or anything like that. But if you're going to hire me to get a job done, here's how we can get that job done, and you will end up better off in the long run, you know, 99 out of 100 [00:23:00] times.
You'll end up better off with-
Jordan Coleman: and get what you want quicker. I think, come in with an open mind and be very realistic
Patrick Hurley: I agree
Stacey Salyer: 100%. I think we all agree on that. So Patrick, what
does a seller need to have to get together so that they're super organized? Like what, what would be like ideal? Do you have a checklist that you hand out or what is that like?
Patrick Hurley: Short answer is good financials, right? I mean, other than that, it's, it's conversational piece that we pull together for me to get information about the company, right? The background, the structure, the makeup of the portfolio, all that type of thing. But it's the financials. And, and the minimum for me is gonna be, , year-to-date P&L.
I like the last two years' actual P&Ls also, and then a couple years of tax returns. I mean, same basic stuff that Jordan's gonna want to pre-qualify some things. , It's no secret recipe there. But it's gotta be organized, and you've gotta get... [00:24:00] You know, if you're-- we're all business owners, and you can run expenses through it.
That's all fine and good. But you've gotta clearly identify what those are if you want 'em to be able to add back towards your value. get rid of any crap or fluff that, that's in there, right? I mean, it's gotta be the realistic, something that a bank would look at as opposed to something that you want the IRS to see, right?
W-would never... I am never... I avoid the IRS as much as possible as far as giving them anything, information I can... For my stuff, I'm sure as heck not taking a seller's and running to the IRS and saying, "Hey, look what they did," you know? This is a give me the best clear picture I can get that's realistic and accurate.
, But the financials, that is the number one thing on my side that kills deals because somebody's not organized with them. I've referenced several times, I'm not sure if with y'all or not, but I've written some things about it, that time kills deals.
Jordan Coleman: Mm-hmm.
Patrick Hurley: And when a buyer's having to wait for answers, you know, on stuff, they just lose interest.
You know, the more you've gotta... You can only play hard to get for so [00:25:00] long, and a buyer gets tired of it, and they run away. So from a seller standpoint, the financials are super key. And I'll give, you know... I'm sure that plenty of people out there can do it, but I wanna give some props to Profit Coach, , that I've worked with personally on my company, on my PMC, , but also with some sellers.
And we've worked together to kinda create a, a program that does some conversion to the NARPM chart of accounts and, and things like that, so we can get a kind of a universal, stay clear picture of things. And so they've worked with me on a limited basis for folks like, "Hey, look, it's a flat fee. Get people in, do the conversion, and now we've got a nice picture."
, You put the work in once. This is like my biggest conversation with sellers. Put the work in on the front end. Do it once to prepare for the sale, and then you can sit back and let me do my job. But I don't know your financials. I don't have your access to your QuickBooks or whatever else, so you gotta get 'em cleaned up [00:26:00] by somebody.
And, and somebody like a Profit Coach is the best, the best route for that.
Stacey Salyer: Yeah, they know the industry really well. What about, , the bank, Jordan? Does, does Live Oak and SBA, do they look at a, at at a, , I guess a seller's portfolio with a better light if they're on the NARPM accounting standards? Is that a big deal for you all, , or is it easier just like internally?
I think the NARPM accounting standards are great. You know, and if, if a buyer can find somebody running on that, it's fantastic. But what about the bank? Does that matter?
Jordan Coleman: I mean, I would say it's not if you're not on it, we're not gonna lend to it. I would say you're gonna be much more organized if you are on, , the NARPM accounting standards or you do use a profit coach. If you're gonna have your books organized, you're gonna have your profit, you're gonna understand your numbers a little bit better versus someone that is just flying by the seat of their pants and, , hoping for the best or don't understand what they have going or can't [00:27:00] provide financials, but they still want, to sell their company.
, We have to get returns. The more organized you are and the better your books are and the cleaner they are, the easier and better it is going to be able to get you to that next step of the process
Patrick Hurley: More the organization, the explanation, and then it's defensible, right? , It's not even the NARPM chart that I love, right? Whatever. They're convenient, but they can be consistent. That's, that's the thing. And it-- And they're broken down in a way that even though all the, the GLs and everything are there, and they can get all the sub GLs, whatever, but you know the number at the bottom of the column is gonna be accurate if it's-- if it's gone through that.
In Profit Coach , or whoever it is, I'm sure, like I said, I'm sure there's plenty of them. I'm sure plenty of operators that do it themselves. That's great. But getting to that accurate bottom number is the best. And I know with my company, you know, kinda open book, I [00:28:00] just needed that outside effort to do it because the actual creation of an organizational structure for something like that is not my forte.
And it's just not... I wasn't gonna invent it. So I got somebody else that could help get my stuff into that box, and it worked well for me. , Because I was operating a business, and that's just, that's what it was. That's what I was trying. Those are the problems I was trying to solve, not, whether my management fee revenue was broken up from my renewal fee, from my, resident benefit package, you know, whatever the case may be.
I just cared about that big bottom number, you know, but the, the sub numbers are very important when you can analyze them and things like that.
Stacey Salyer: Oh, for sure. And it makes it so much easier to really have the story told to you. I think that's important because I know, going through and getting an SBA loan, , working with a bank, you have to be able... As the buyer, you have to be able to tell the story, and also then [00:29:00] run good projections, right?
, So I'm, I'm a huge fan of, you know, whatever you want, whether it's NARPM accounting standards or something, you know, similar. , But yeah, I know when I had my company, I ran it on the accounting standards. And it honestly made me a better business owner too, because then I was able to look like, "Well, how much money am I really making in renewals?"
, Yeah, I'm paying a VA to run this particular department and do all this. Like, am I actually making good money on that? Or do I just... You know, thoughts and feelings are not how we run a business, right?
Or we shouldn't be.
Patrick Hurley: thoughts and feelings. Like, I want to learn based on thoughts and feelings, Jordan
Jordan Coleman: Yeah,
Stacey Salyer: Oh yeah. Could I get one too?
Jordan Coleman: "I, I love, I love my business and I want to sell it for $2 million," and they make 10,000, they, they pocket 10,000 a year. And it-
Stacey Salyer: Right
Patrick Hurley: I know you've gotten this before, and probably both of you have, that somebody will come in with a business valuation, whether-- and Stacey, for you, it might be a buy- a, a buyer who says, "Hey, the seller says it's worth this." Jordan, I know you've seen this, [00:30:00] but somebody was like, "My CPA said it's worth this," or, "My, my financial advisor," even better, "put it on my personal financial statement with this value."
And I'm like, "Okay," you know, "let, let's really open this thing up and start being able to back that up."
Jordan Coleman: Yeah. my most favorite is my financial advisor is my brother.
Patrick Hurley: Yeah. Oh, yeah, exactly Ah, the
Stacey Salyer: Ah, the family, the
Jordan Coleman: Yes. Oh, yeah. So unrealistic
Patrick Hurley: Even worse would be your, even worse would be your brother-in-law 'cause he's trying to set his sister up, , for your net worth when they're trying to take it.
Jordan Coleman: signed over a $2 million life insurance policy
Stacey Salyer: That's
awesome. I love that. Yes, and those are, yeah, hard conversations to have for sure. Well, before we wrap up, is there any rapid fire hot takes you guys wanna share or anything that's been on your mind and you're like, "I wanna go and share it with the world and my listeners"?
Jordan Coleman: I think I would just finish my, my portion of this is just be realistic. Get [00:31:00] your financials together. , Know what your business is and, and have the realistic expectations of not what you just heard , through somebody of this is what they sold it for. Be realistic and understand what your business is able to provide
Patrick Hurley: Again, you can't just decide no different than buying, but I don't think that sellers look at it as much that you do have to prepare. You gotta-- you've gotta get things made ready, and there's gonna be work on the front end if you wanna get the most out of the back end. If you just wanna throw something out there, and there's somebody that'll buy it.
There's always somebody that'll buy, or at least look at type of thing, right? But you're gonna get your best bang for the buck if you're willing to put a little time, effort, and even some money, right, for a conversion or, you know, or, or some sort of investment in your, in your business to actually get it sold.
you know, that is the number one thing I run into with people just aren't quite ready, and then they [00:32:00] don't wanna put the work in to get it ready, but they still expect me to be able to pull a rabbit out of the proverbial hat. It just doesn't work like that. Particularly not to get you... You make it cheap enough, somebody will buy it.
But then that's... then you're kinda fighting against a different, kind of visceral, , instinct over there, you know, to give something away. They don't wanna give it away. They want as much as they can but do as little work, right? You just have to understand that those two go in line. The more work you get, generally, the more work you do, rather, the better value you'll get out , at the end.
I really want sellers to, to understand that and know that it's not somebody trying to make it tough on 'em, , but they're the only ones that know their business as well as they do, and I'm there to help guide them to how to get all that to the surface so that a buyer that works with you, buyer that comes to Jordan, can present it clearly and say, "Here's a great business that I get to buy," not, "How do I fix this, you know, piece of shit over here that I'm gonna lose money on," or, you know, whatever the case may be.
, That's a big thing. And then [00:33:00] second, I would just say is don't be scared to sell, , now because Jordan's still able to make loans. I mean, the rates are not, you know, people waiting for a, a slight rate change here or there. What's a quarter point gonna do to you if it goes down, right? That's not making the deal type thing.
So don't always wait for the tomorrow's the best day, right? Most more times than not, yesterday was the best day. The second-best day is today. And that comes with almost anything. When you get an instinct and a need, pursue it and go and commit to it. You know, 'cause that's what makes it successful effort.
A, a successful effort, I should say.
Stacey Salyer: Yeah, I think it's better to go out on, like, what I call the Seinfeld exit, 'cause I don't know if you guys used to watch Seinfeld, but he went out when his, , ratings were the highest, and a lot of people questioned him and said, "Why did end the show when your ratings were the highest?"
And it's better to go out on the high than, you know, start going down the slippery slope and, you know, losing money every year, and now unfortunately you're selling something that [00:34:00] you did all this hard work, but you didn't sell when it was the high. So I think that's a really good point, and that's something I tell people all the time is, , don't wait too long
Patrick Hurley: since you mentioned that, that I'll add, I would encourage sellers not to start stripping down their company before they sell. Because I've seen quite a few do that, where they try to get all the sales out of them. They're trying to... What- whatever it is they're trying to squeeze, and then all of a sudden they're like, "Well, I'm gonna sell.
I- I'm left with 50 contracts," or, "I'm left with this or that." And it's like, maybe that was the right move for you, I don't know. But from-- for th- for them personally, 'cause every situation's different. But it's a good idea to go out. I like that, the Seinfeld... I was never a Seinfeld guy, but, , the idea of going out when it's still just firing on all cylinders and it's at the top of the top.
Who doesn't want to retire at the peak, right? You don't want to be , the professional athlete that comes for three comebacks and next thing you know your [00:35:00] name's irrelevant when you were the, you know, the Super Bowl winner the year, you know, four years ago or whatever
Stacey Salyer: Right. Exactly. Yeah. Awesome. Well, I really appreciate both of you coming on. , I thought this was a lot of fun. For all of my listeners, I hope that we get to see you in person next week in Las Vegas. , Be sure and flag us down. I don't know, what day are you guys arriving? I'm, I'm probably arriving sometime on Monday, so I can go to the kickoff party.
What about you all?
Jordan Coleman: I think I'm coming in early, early Tuesday morning
Stacey Salyer: All right
Patrick Hurley: yeah, I'm in on the 12th, I believe. , If I'm being totally honest, I haven't booked my flight yet, so we'll figure it out.
Stacey Salyer: Well, I haven't honestly booked mine either, but, , I will get one. From Seattle it's easy. They, Seattle to Vegas, they have them all the time
Patrick Hurley: I'll, I think I'm coming in Tuesday though, and, uh, I'd be right there for the week, so looking forward to it. Now we've gotta get a- another episode going so that, , I can just knock Jordan out of the top two on downloads. So it's like, there's the challenge.[00:36:00]
Jordan Coleman: Got a little competition going on.
Patrick Hurley: So a little competition there.
I'm on one and two. Yeah. Okay.
Stacey Salyer: Okay. Okay. Yeah. Well, that'll be fun. I can't wait to spend time with you in Vegas, and, , hope to see all my listeners, , next week as well. All right. Thanks for showing up today
Patrick Hurley: Looking forward to it. Thanks, Stacey. Thanks, Jordan
Outro: Thanks for listening to the Stacey Salyer show. Here's the deal. You can read about acquisitions anywhere, but you can't learn acquisitions from someone who's done it the way I have as a buyer, a seller, and from the corporate side evaluating hundreds of companies. That's why I need you to subscribe and share this with someone in your network who needs to hear it.
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