Intro: [00:00:00] Welcome to the Stacey Salyer Show, the podcast for property management leaders ready to think bigger about growth. I'm Stacey Salyer and the only acquisition strategist in this industry who sat on all sides of the m and a table. I've been the buyer acquiring a 370 door competitor during COVID using seller financing.
I've been the seller building and exiting a seven figure business. And I've been the corporate evaluator as director of acquisitions, assessing over hundreds of companies nationally. That means I know exactly what you're thinking, what you're missing, and what actually works when it comes to buying and integrating in this space.
On this show, we dig into acquisitions as a real business tool. Not luck, not someday. You'll learn positioning, strategy, numbers, and integration from someone who's actually done it all. Let's go.
Stacey Salyer: welcome to The Stacey [00:01:00] Salyer Show, where we talk about buying and selling property management companies. Today, I have a dynamic duo on my show. I have, uh, Blake Mohseni and Tim Wehner with Rising Tide Property Management.
So welcome to my show.
Blake Mohseni: Great to be here
Tim Wehner: Yeah, thanks for having us
Stacey Salyer: Yes. Love that you guys joined. , So today we are going to be talking about buying property management companies primarily. , Those of you who listen religiously, and I know there's a lot of you, , probably know who Tim is. , Blake, I believe you're newer to the space, so we kind of wanted to talk about what you guys are currently building and maybe kind of what you're looking for, and would love to just kind of dive in and start, start the conversation.
So I'll let you guys kind of take it away.
Blake Mohseni: Yeah, no, apprec- appreciate the opportunity, Stacey, and happy to really talk through ethos of Rising Tide and what we're looking to do in the SFR and small multi space. , [00:02:00] I... Maybe, maybe I'll give a little bit of background on myself, just context for the listeners that don't know me, and then we can jump into some of the, the, the vision stuff.
, So I, I've, I've had the fortune of working across a multitude of different industries throughout the entirety of my career, , ranging from manufacturing businesses all the way through to small mom-and-pop flooring businesses. And the through line throughout that, whether I'm in the day-to-day operations or working on the business, has been building systems and structure to help enhance organizations.
And so throughout all of that experience and growing up in a family of entrepreneurs and small business owners, , I kept seeing business owners run into the same issues over and over again, whether that was at a Fortune 100 company or, or a small business, which is, , really putting the building blocks in place to scale the organizations is not , a built-in quality that most humans have, is what I find.
And so, uh, decided to go formalize that knowledge , and build that capability in a way that a lot of business could, could benefit from. [00:03:00] Ultimately took that into my own consulting business where I did that for small to mid-sized businesses , for a number of years, and then came to this, this conclusion that I love dancing around and, plugging into a bunch of different industries because you learn so much.
But picking a particular industry to call home is what I'm looking for the next chapter of my career, which led me to let me do some exploration. Let me find out where the, the place that I want to call home is." And, that's how I u- ultimately landed on, property management.
And there's more backstory there that I could give you if you want to know. I'm not sure if the listeners are actually interested in that. , But, but I've met great people like you at the broker/owner conferences. I've met great people like Tim, and this just seems like a great place to call home. , I also have a background in AI , and technology as well too, which I've, I've implemented that in a number of different industries, and I, believe that, it's gonna be an accelerant that really helps and supports this industry as we continue to push towards raising the standard of service.
So, , excited to be chatting with you and, and [00:04:00] share more about Rising Tide. But before I do, maybe Tim, you want to give some of your background as well?
Tim Wehner: Sure, yeah. Mine is less complex, potentially less exciting, but, , yeah, my background is almost entirely in, directly in property management. So I've really only had like one other job in my life other than being in property management, and that is completely by accident. Yeah, so I sold and wrote radio ads, was my first job out of college.
, And then they laid off like our entire sales force about six months or eight months into my job. So I was living in DC, and I moved back to Richmond, Virginia, and I went to a networking event for my, the college that I went to, Randolph-Macon College. Shout out Yellow Jackets. , And I met a guy named Duke Dodson, who ended up being my, , he was the founder of Dodson Property Management, ended up being my boss there for about, , 15 or 16 years at this point.
So it was kind of funny. We met at a networking event in the morning, [00:05:00] and, , he called me about six days later and said, "Hey, you know, I've got an intern who's leaving, and our, , our admin is leaving, and I need somebody to fill in for about a week or two while I interview other candidates and make a more full-time hire."
, And then, as I always say, he still hasn't made that other hire. So he-- Somehow I ended up sticking around for, for 14 years, and then we-- That was in 2009, and then in 2022, , we had grown. I, I was like employee number two effectively at, at that point. , And we grew to almost 180 employees, , in 2022, and we did a bunch of different business lines, mostly single-family property management, but also we did some HOA management as well and some small multifamily that we did.
And, and so we went from, I think we were 118 units the day I started. For some reason, that number sticks in mind. I think, I think it was 118 units, and then I think we, we ended with over 7,000, , by the time we merged with Evernest in 2022. So, , yeah, been in property management for a [00:06:00] long, long time.
Again, unintentionally. I did not go to college for property management like most of us or anything like that, but I'm glad I'm in it. I always find it interesting, and I'll just do a quick plug here. You know, people always complain about the industry, and they say you gotta be crazy to be in it.
I think maybe it just attracts crazy people, 'cause I think it's a great industry. I love it. I think it's awesome. I think it's challenging. I think it's fun. I think it presents , new issues every day that, that you can solve problems in. So I don't, I don't think you have to be crazy to get into it. I just think it happens to attract crazy people.
, , maybe that's the differentiating factor there.
Stacey Salyer: Yeah. I mean, I can probably say we're all, all three of us are a little crazy in our own little way, right? Well, before we even started this, even before we started the show, I said, "Well, I'm like Gen X eldest daughter." I mean, eldest granddaughter, eldest niece. That's, , puts me right there. I think I'm perfect.
That's why I just can't get out. I call it the dark, the dark side. I even sold my company in '22, , same year you guys merged with [00:07:00] Evernest, and, , I tried to leave. I even put it on my Facebook actually in 2024, and then look at me now. Here I am. I'm back. Yeah, full circle. So Blake, you decided to like jump in.
Was it like were you meditating? Were you on one of your big hikes and you were like, "Oh my gosh, I wanna join the
Tim Wehner: It was, yeah.
Stacey Salyer: property
Tim Wehner: His was more of a con- I do blame him. His s- is more of a conscience, conscious effort here to get it into it
Blake Mohseni: I saw how much fun you guys were having, and I saw some other like-minded crazies, and I'm like, "Shit, I gotta dive into this thing , and join the party."
Stacey Salyer: Yes. Yes. Well, and I will say if you're a super nerd, 'cause kind of the way you were describing yourself, Blake, is, you know... And I, I'm a self-proclaimed super nerd, so,
Blake Mohseni: I am also a nerd
Stacey Salyer: yeah. The- it's a great industry for that too, 'cause you can be crazy and nerdy at the same time, and people think you're really cool. So it's a good welcome.
Blake Mohseni: That's exactly what I was going for. That's
Stacey Salyer: Yeah. Yeah. We need T-shirts.
Blake Mohseni: We really do actually. Stacey, I think we, we [00:08:00] can go in on a collab, uh,
Stacey Salyer: All right, let's do that.
Blake Mohseni: collab on, on some merch.
Stacey Salyer: Yeah, let's do that. All right. So
Blake Mohseni: I would say, I, I would say just o- one, one thing that I would add is The, all the problem-solving that needs to take place that you alluded to, Tim, like , that's the opportunity.
That's, that's what interests me so much about this industry is I see so many people working so hard and, and trying to service all the different customers that exist within this space. And, , the premier operators have solved this problem, but there's so many people that have not solved this problem, and they're running around trying to , put out so many fires.
We actually w- were with, , a, property management owner a couple weeks ago, and we were talking about this analogy that came to mind as we were talking, which is like, it's like you have a bucket with only a certain amount of water, but there's too much fire to put out. So you're running around trying to pour water over all these different fires, but you don't actually have enough water to pour it out.
, And so that's what really excites me about this space is, , coming in to support the businesses and people that are working so hard to try to provide, , [00:09:00] high-quality service to their customers and are struggling. And I think there's a lot of different ways that we could go about solving that.
Stacey Salyer: Yeah. Well, I think that's a great segue. Why don't you dive into a little bit what is Rising Tide doing or what, you know, what are your plans to do, something different in the industry? , 'Cause I know you, you are, and it's okay to say, I'm assuming that you guys are, , working on building through acquiring, right?
Blake Mohseni: Yes
Stacey Salyer: We can
Tim Wehner: Yep, absolutely
Stacey Salyer: into that too. But yeah, so what, what makes Rising Tide so different?
Blake Mohseni: Yeah, hap- happy to give that, that context. , So we are growing via acquisition. We are a, a buyer in the marketplace. , I would say our model is different in the sense that we actually look to partner with owners and act as an accelerant to growth. So we are, , very tech-forward, a- as you probably got from my intro and, and from some of the things that Tim was alluding to as well.
, And we believe that there, there are a lot of owners out there that have gotten to a certain growth level or maturation point and hit a point of stagnation where they just need some additional tools to continue to [00:10:00] scale up and grow. And so,, our view is that, , we want to keep property management firms local, where the front end of the business is local , and is doing all the great things that have gotten it to that point.
But give it the shared backend and infrastructure that many large-scale institutions get access to, whether that is tech support, whether that is, , some other shared services a- a- as, as well too. And, and we go about doing that in a unique way where, , when we, , purchase a firm, we actually want to retain the owner and have them continue to stay on.
If an owner wants to sail off into the sunset and go drink piña coladas in Cancun or The Bahamas, like, we're not gonna say no. We don't wanna stop them from their, their goal and vision of what life they wanna go live. But, but really we're looking for tho- those, those players that, that do wanna stay on and, and are looking to participate in what we call a federation, which is different than what you s- typically see from most acquirers, which, , whether it's a, a private equity firm or someone else coming in, typically you see a firm come rip the name, rip the owner, [00:11:00] rip the team, centralize the tech stack.
All of those are, are typical fundamentals of a traditional PE and aggregator playbook. And, and we believe that we can grow as a larger scale entity, not having to do those very painful things, and focusing on really, as I said earlier, acting as that accelerant for, for the firms that we're working with.
Stacey Salyer: Very cool. So your intention is, , a- as of right now, your intention, they get to stay on their own tech stack? Or do you foresee kind of in the future kind of migrating some people into things that's a little bit easier to keep people on the same database? Or is that going too far into the weeds?
Blake Mohseni: No, I'm, I'm, I'm happy to share context there. , , at the end of the day, the whole game, like I always like , to boil this down to first principles, is we're trying to create more top line and manage the bottom line. And what has recently been unlocked in recent years that didn't exist even six, six months to a year ago, is being able to leverage AI as a, a middleware that [00:12:00] plugs into these businesses that unlocks the capacity of organizations.
So an example would be being able to take a property management firm that has 100 doors per property manager and being able to double that, that, , door count , per head, per that head count because we're pulling them out of the minutia. Like if you talk to most property managers, and I know I'm speaking to, , the, preaching to the choir here 'cause this is all PMs that are listening to this podcast.
But in the day-to-day, every conversation that I've had is I wake up, I roll out of bed, I open up my phone, I have 100-plus messages about, , a, a leak in the roof or my refrigerator's out, or all sorts of other issues that are just constantly popping up on people's radar. , And our belief is that AI can address a lot of these things, and we actually proven that out via , our, , engagement model which we can spend some time on as well, called The Lab.
A- and so to answer your question directly, we actually don't believe in a centralized tech stack. We believe in, , leveraging AI to plug into the stack that's already working within those firms as an accelerant , to buy [00:13:00] back the time of the people that are caught up in the minutia so that they can focus on the most important thing that exists within that business, which is f- face time with the owners, face time with the residents, making sure that their employees feel supported and proper vendor relationships.
Those four customers have been underserved just because back to that water bucket analogy, people are running around with too little water in their bucket to put it out, and we just thought of this right now. We want to fill that bucket up so that they're able to put those fires out.
Stacey Salyer: Love
Tim Wehner: done. Well done there,
Blake Mohseni: Yeah. Full
Tim Wehner: Yeah, I mean, I mean, I think it's important to call-- I think it's important to call out, like, there's not one perfect way to do this. I've, I've been doing acquisitions for a long time. , Did 10 plus at Dodson back in the, back in those days, starting, I think our first one was in 2012 that we did.
And, , I ran acquisitions at Evernest while I was there for about a year. And so I've done, a couple dozen more through that. And it's important to call out there's not one right way to do it, right? And it's all r- it's all [00:14:00] really, really hard. I've seen it done... I've seen every single way of the model work really, really well, somewhere in the middle, and really, really poorly.
So, , I think it's important to call that out, that it's, speaking to your, your listeners that are trying to acquire companies, there's no secret sauce. There's no perfect way to do it. , This is just the way that we believe, , and the way that we're building out, and we believe that this brings the fewest points of friction in there and leverages the folks that we're actually gonna go after, right?
We're looking for people who have built great businesses and not necessarily people who are looking to exit. And so the philosophy is why change? Yeah, it might be easier to get everybody on the same stack. , At times it might be easier, it might be harder, but why make those changes when they've already built this great system and they've got , this great clientele, they've got great employees.
, And that's, that's just us, right? , There, there's a number of different philosophies on that. And again, I've executed on, on probably all the different philosophies out there. , But you know, I think at Rising Tide, the way that we're going after [00:15:00] our ideal partners, this just makes the most sense to us.
Stacey Salyer: Yeah. So Tim, I have a question for you, 'cause I know we probably even went up against each other technically in deals, right? 'Cause I was with Pure, you were with Evernest during that
Tim Wehner: Oh, absolutely. Oh, oh, sure
Stacey Salyer: I'm sure. Although we were probably just head down in our own lane doing our own thing. What do you think is the hardest part about buying a property management company?
Tim Wehner: I mean, I think that's a great question. I mean, I think it's evolving, right? I mean, I think it dep- it depends on what part , you're speaking of. But I think for right now, , listen, there was, there was a lot of movement in the acquisition space from like your 2018 to 2022 space, 2000-- 2023 even really.
And there, and then a lot of folks dropped off. I mean, Evernest shut down their acquisition, their acquisition team. Now they still did a few, but , they shut down our whole team and, and so I think there's been a little bit of dry powder out there. So I think that's starting getting ready to churn over.
And so I think on the front end, [00:16:00] there's competition out there, right? I've talked to people pretty much every day at this point that are saying, "Hey, I'm getting two, three, four calls a week from people who are trying to buy property management companies." And whether that's brokers or private equity or Rising Tide or,, Pure Home River or who- whomever it is, there's a lot of competition out there, and there's folks that are getting a lot of noise in their inboxes and on their cell phones.
, And so I think on the front end, that's probably the hardest part. once you've made the acquisition, and maybe, you know, Stacey, you can probably speak to this too, the people piece is really, really hard. Systems are systems and, those can either be really good or they can be changed or whatever it is.
But I think the, the people aspect of it is just the hardest part for me, whether it's the emotional tie to it and the, "Oh my gosh, what's happening to me?" You know, as you get further down into the organization, people , are concerned. It's their livelihood, it's their job, right? And so what's gonna happen to me?
What's gonna happen to my family, my partner, whatever it may be. , I think managing those [00:17:00] expectations and getting folks either to buy into the culture of the organization that you're, bringing them in to be a part of, or sometimes unfortunately, you know, managing them out because they're not a good fit there.
That to me is the hardest part or always has been the hardest part for me, right? I, I'm like the guy from Office Space. I'm a people person, , goddammit. , , So it's, it's hard for me when somebody's not matching. But I think to me , that's the most difficult piece, is making sure that people feel taken care of and making sure that, that people feel like they're actually part of this thing.
And, and that takes time, and that's not easy. And you've got a million different things that you're doing, , and sometimes that ends up going by the wayside, which is unfortunate. But, you know, like I said, I've made a ton of mistakes in this, and I've done that. I've done that exact thing, just not onboarding somebody correctly, not onboarding a group of people correctly, , and really, , having a negative impact on those folks.
And so I think that's one, like I said, the hardest thing to accomplish really, really well, and two, maybe the hardest thing emotionally about it, , from my perspective.
Stacey Salyer: Yeah. Yeah. No, I [00:18:00] love that answer
Blake Mohseni: I would add a little bit, , to, to what you called out there, Tim. I think that's actually where many organizations get even AI and technology wrong, is the human aspect and the change management curve that needs to take place to actually get them from, "We have a problem here," to, "This is the destination we're trying to get to, and this is how we, , mature over, the change curve."
And I've been super fortunate throughout my career to live through that and see, that , in a multitude of instances. And, to what you called out, it's like the, the organizations that aren't people first and aren't leaning in on that side of things will suffer. Like, as you go to , acquire a business and you think about the stickiest...
Like, one of the most important metrics in your underwriting is gonna be what is your door retention post-acquisition. And, if you don't underwrite the potential risk of churn w- at the owner level or even at the team level, your, your book of business or your asset that you're gonna be taking on [00:19:00] could disintegrate , directly in front of you.
And so, I think it's just an important part for anybody that's listening to say as important as the numbers are, as important as it is the deal that you think you're getting on, on that book of business, to really underwrite the people that you're bringing on. Do they have a growth mindset?
are they willing to change? are they open to whatever the next chapter is that you're trying to bring in? , Because if they're not, your asset is at serious risk going into the future.
Stacey Salyer: Yeah.
Tim Wehner: think that change management piece, just again to b- to build on that, like the change management piece, I mean, property managers by nature aren't necessarily fantastic at change management. , We're really good at, the, the here and the now and putting out fires and doing all those sorts of things.
So I think that's a great call out is just change management in general. It's a tough skill and it's a learned skill, and we don't-- that's not a, i- in property management, that's not necessarily an iron that's, that you sharpen all the time, right?
So I think that's, that's a really good call out there as well.
Stacey Salyer: Yeah. Well, and I think you bring up a good point. So I was at AppFolio Future, , last week in their opening keynote. [00:20:00] Her whole, , keynote was about change, actually, embracing change. And of course, you know, it was probably centered around AI and, and tech. , But I have, I have seen in property management itself, the best...
Well, a lot of the operators, actually owner-operators tend to be kind of more that technical non-visionary type person, , versus, you know, the visionary person loves change. Like, I love change, honestly. Like, I get bored. In fact, if things don't change for me, then I will create change and chaos. If anyone just looks at my life, they'll be like, "Yeah, that makes sense."
Um,
Blake Mohseni: I make actually a quick observation on that? I think the last time we chatted or, or spoke, your camera angle's on a different, , location. So I don't know if you moved your desk around or, or something along those lines. Was that, is that, is that a change that recently has shown up?
Tim Wehner: That is 100% correct, yes.
Stacey Salyer: I was in a different state, actually. I was , in my place in South Carolina. And yes, I was, I have not been home in Washington. [00:21:00] I've been home, like, maybe t- 15 days out of the last two months,
Blake Mohseni: Wow
Stacey Salyer: I am an empty nester. I'm embracing my, uh, nomadic lifestyle that I want to create,
Tim Wehner: There you go. That's fair. That's
Stacey Salyer: Yeah. So yeah, so I think kind of, yeah, going back to the whole change thing is that, you know, it does start with the leader and I, and I have seen a lot of operators, like owners that tend to be kind of more of that technical, non-visionary type person because in property management it's so operational based, , where it can be a little bit of a challenge when you have that team.
, I know one thing that's worked well for me, and I'll just put this out there, is, you know, when I acquire, , I do my best to try and interview the team members, , as much as I can without, , alerting to the seller selling, you know, because it just kind of... that can get a little bit sticky and tricky too.
But, , you know, making sure that you've got the right mindset of team members coming in. So I don't know if you guys want to talk a little bit about your process of what it looks like for you acquiring or [00:22:00] what that looks like, , bringing, , companies into your company. , Because it's not like franchise, but it's not necessarily like, you know, a pure Evernest where they're going to just say, "Hey, we're buying your book of business and putting it under that name either," right?
Blake Mohseni: Ha- happy to give context there. One question I do have before we jump into that is what's your method for the listeners so that, so that they can understand how you go about having those conversations with employees without the alarm bells going off? How do you position yourself? What's, what's some of the messaging?
How, how does that look?
Stacey Salyer: , So I guess, , I mean, I can share. I just I guess it, maybe it wouldn't work in the future if I'm doing it. , But, you
Blake Mohseni: I don't wanna take, like maybe, maybe we'll keep your secrets to yourself then. Why don't you keep your secrets to yourself? I don't want you to lose, lose your secret sauce
Stacey Salyer: Yeah. , Since I am actively acquiring, I guess I, you know, have to be a little bit careful on kind of the different things I'm doing. But, , you know, I think that a seller could partner, you know, maybe with [00:23:00] some, , consultants in the arena and kind of do that, like maybe pre-team building. So I would say on the flip side, like if somebody is looking to sell, it might not be a bad idea for them to partner with a consultant.
It doesn't necessarily have to be a property management consultant, but somebody who's really good at that team building and really looking at particular traits of the person in the, the different roles so that they're able to present to a particular, a potential buyer of, "Hey, here is my team." , Maybe even have them recorded, like some different interviews.
That might be a, a suggestion that I would put out there.
Blake Mohseni: Yeah, really, really good call. Really good call. And so, so one of the key things I want to call out is, and this is just a lesson in change management for anybody that has recently made an acquisition or is going through that process is the whole remit, and I'm not saying artificial trust. I want to be very clear here. The through line in any change you're going to drive is trust-based.
[00:24:00] And so if you don't establish trust early and often with the people that you are interfacing with, the You will not achieve the change that you're looking to achieve. So that's like foundational. So if you think about if you go to like the, the derivative , of what, where trust comes from, it's just a say-do ratio.
Meaning what you say is actually what takes place, and you do that enough times, you build enough goodwill and credibility, and people believe that you're on, on, on their side and see you that, you're showing up in their corner on their side, , that enables goodwill and trust.
And so if you put yourself in the position of anybody that , is being acquired, their initial emotion is typically fear. Like and I'll, I don't wanna put everyone in a bucket, but let's say 90% of people are gonna be like, "Oh shit, what does this mean? My day-to-day is being interrupted. I don't know h- how, what this translates to for me, my family, my livelihood.
, Am I gonna be let go?" There's all of these different questions are flying. And , what the [00:25:00] acquirer's goal should be is to create stability within that environment, , to ensure that those people feel like they, they're safe and that they can trust the group that they're working with.
And this can be brokered via a number of different ways, whether it's one, getting to know people on more of a personal level, , within, within the organization that you're working with, or, , really understanding what their problems are and helping them try to solve those things. And this is, this is one of the things that we're super passionate about it, is yes, we know where some of the biggest opportunities are from a AI implementation standpoint, but it's not just about our playbook.
It's tell us where your pain is. Like, we wanna make your life better and that, , that's the whole intent , of Rising Tide acting as an accelerant is where are you getting bogged down in the minutia and the day-to-day? Let's build out the infrastructure to support that. Where, where are you experiencing friction in the work that you're doing?
And so that, that automatically creates goodwill in the organization that you're operating in, and inherently becomes the [00:26:00] building blocks and stepping stones for larger scale change that you're looking to execute. And so my recommendation for anybody that is making an acquisition is I actually don't recommend day one going in and blowing up the system and putting a bunch of your own stuff in and trying to make sure everyone knows your name.
Like, you will lose a lot of people, and if those people have relationships with owners, you will lose a lot of owners as well too. , It's to create stability. It's to create trust. It's to solve core problems the organization is dealing with And, and to continue , to, , compound on that over time. The key thing I, I wanna call out is just, like, as Tim said, and Tim said it perfectly, there's no right or wrong way to do this.
if you wanna go in and blow everything up, that's fine. Just make sure as part of your underwriting, you're underwriting for higher levels of churn from an employee and an owner perspective, because that will be the end result you're, you're, you're experiencing
Tim Wehner: Yeah, Blake, I, I think you, mentioned a lot of trust and like , do what you say what you do sort of stuff. , Even taking a step further back, like as you're doing your due [00:27:00] diligence and as you're going through this, I mean, I think as you're walking through that whole-- You're walking through a potential acquisition through that whole process, 'cause a lot of them need to be walked through that process.
I think it's kind of whatever they'll allow you to do, whatever they're comfortable with. But I really enjoy and think it is absolutely, if you can do it, imperative. I understand sometimes you can't, but if there are two or three key employees that, that, , the owner of the company will let you sit down with and, whether it's spilling the beans and just being fully transparent and saying, "Hey, we're, we're looking at potentially making an acquisition or partnering with, with your group."
, Or whether you have to be a little bit of more, , indirect on that. I, I think that's your first opportunity to build trust and really just be straightforward, transparent, and get to know them. And it's really helpful as an acquirer, like, right? Is somebody gonna get scared off? Are they nervous?
Are they not gonna be cool with change? Have they been promised [00:28:00] something that suddenly the sale is now not going to allow them to be, to, to come to fruition, right? There's a number of things that you can find out in that space that I think are important. And, uh, you know, I had, I had one at Dodson where it, there was the daughter of the person who was selling was kind of the number two, and she wasn't on board.
She was absolutely not on board, and it was no, it... I don't think it was anything we did, although she may not have liked me, I guess. I don't know. , That, that's possible. I'm not sure how, but it's possible. But, , but it ended up just being great for everybody. She did, she had self-selected and said, "Hey, I'm, , this isn't for me.
I'm out. I don't really understand it. I wasn't really, , you know, I was doing it 'cause my mom wanted me to be here for a few years and , it's just not my thing." And so, you know, going into that acquisition, we knew what-- We either had to elevate somebody or we had to find somebody else to help run it.
And so there's a lot of stuff that can flesh itself out during that due diligence period if there's open, honest, and [00:29:00] transparency. I think a lot of sellers are often very nervous to give anything away. I would actually go the opposite. It's like, don't, don't let everybody know, but if, you have a solid number two or you have a solid executive team, like let those folks know, 'cause they can be pivotal in making it work or not making it work.
Stacey Salyer: I would agree with that as well, that communication 100%. Again, it is a fine dance, if you will, and just making sure it's executed correctly. , But I think when you've built that relationship on the front end with the potential seller, then, then it's a lot easier to execute. And it, it's usually not like you've had, you know, one date with the seller and now all of a sudden you're moving to, you know, interviewing their top three employees.
It's more you've built that long-term relationship. They know you're real. They know, they know you. They feel comfortable, and, and it is much easier. So, , there's kind of a science to it, I think. Yeah, for sure.
Tim Wehner: Yep, absolutely
Stacey Salyer: So yeah. [00:30:00] Now, , Tim, have you officially announced that you're with Rising Tide? Is that out there, or is this, is this like it?
Is it my show where it's a big announcement?
Tim Wehner: no. No, I've-- You've been on the road, so I've, , you've been on the road. I guess you haven't been checking your LinkedIn, uh, while you've been flying, but, uh,, or maybe you're driving, I don't know. So yeah, stay off your cell phone, I guess. But, , but no, I think it was a couple of Fridays ago, , I put, posted out on LinkedIn that I'm part of it, and, , just super excited.
And I've been spending a lot of time, , making phone calls to my network and talking to a lot of the same people that we've known for years, Stacey, and just letting them know what I'm doing. Obviously, LinkedIn, , has a certain, , reach, but just trying to make phone calls, let folks know where I am.
, And I've had a lot of fun telling people about what we're doing. , A lot of long-term friends that I've known in the industry since-- Gosh, I've been, I've been a part of NARPM since 2010, which, you know, in 2015 when I was, , 30, that didn't seem that long. But, 11 years later, now I feel old and like I've [00:31:00] been, , like I'm one of the older generation in NARPM.
But just a lot of folks that I haven't had a chance to connect with in a while, I've reconnected with on this and, just really excited about it. And I made a couple trips to Chicago and saw Blake. We were, We were out on the road last week in rainy, pouring down Chicago, Illinois, and,
Blake Mohseni: It's beautiful weather right now, man. I,
Tim Wehner: Is it great?
Blake Mohseni: you bring the bad weather every time you come
Tim Wehner: Every time I go to Chicago, it's garbage-ass weather, which is terrible, and it's not even winter yet. But yeah, so thank you for asking. But no, , we are officially, uh, I'm officially Rising Tide and super excited about it and having a great time and just, like I said, reaching out to my network right now.
And if you're part of my network and I haven't reached out to you, please feel free to reach out to me, , if you got my number or my email. But, , but yeah, just, , really excited about the opportunity here. , I think I've told the story about how Blake and I connected, but I think it's important just really philosophically, back to it foundationally, we just agree on, on how to do this, how to treat people, and it just, you know, [00:32:00] it was just fortuitous that we got connected.
It's kinda like my story meeting Duke. Like I didn't, I didn't tell the part where , the morning I met Duke, I had been out pretty late the night before with a buddy who had came into town, and I was thinking about not going to that networking meeting at seven o'clock in the morning, , as a 23-year-old, having been out till about, , 2:30 in the morning.
But, And so that was fortuitous. And I think just, you know, we got connected through a couple mutual friends and, I think just... It took, it took him a little while to convince me, but, , , it was fortunate that we, that we got together and just, y-you know, connected on, on, on the foundation of property management and the foundation of how to treat people, and so really excited to, to be a part of the squad.
Stacey Salyer: Yeah. No, I think it's great. It's a great match. Yeah, for sure. I mean, knowing you, I mean, you're past NARPM president, national president. I mean, you know property management inside and out. You have great relationships, and I know you guys are building something really cool. So you mentioned earlier, um, something about a lab.
And being a super nerd, I wanna, I wanna hear more about the lab. Are you... What are you building?
Tim Wehner: I will de-- I'd like to de- I'd like to [00:33:00] declare that I am not a nerd. Like, I don't, I, I, I
Stacey Salyer: Bye, Tim.
Blake Mohseni: I've spent enough time with you to call you a nerd as
Tim Wehner: I am a
Blake Mohseni: And
Stacey Salyer: Fine. That's fine. You don't get a T-shirt. Yeah, you don't get a T-shirt then, Tim. That's fine.
Blake Mohseni: , No, ha- happy, happy to give some context here. So as, as we've spent some time, , talking through property management, and obviously Tim brings a whole wealth of knowledge and expertise in terms of what, he's built at, at Dotson and, , and other, other institutions, , we wanna be able to point back to what AI can actually drive within different firms that, that we would look to bring into our federation.
And, and so we stood up something called The Lab, and the whole intent is to give, , free AI implementation and support to property management firms. And yes, I am, I'm saying free. , so the, the lab is free AI consulting and implementation where we work with a cohort of property management firms. We work with two to three property management firms [00:34:00] every quarter for 60 to 90 days to understand where their organizational pain points are and to establish an end-to-end AI solution to address that across different workflows.
That can range from... We've built workflows in leasing. We've, , built wor- workflows in maintenance, unit turns, vendor follow-up, , across a number of, of different organizations that we work with. And, and we've seen amazing results bringing a team member's time down by 40%, 50% , across their day-to-day operational roles, all feeding back to this idea that we continue to come back to within, , Rising Tide, which is we want to raise the standard of service.
We believe AI is an accelerant, and it's going to raise the standard of service within this industry, and we want to help broker that within the space. And so anytime someone hears free, they're like, "All right, what's the catch? I feel like I'm being walked into," , what's, what's a good analogy? , What's a good analogy?
What's, what... No, no, no. Hold, hold on. I... Timeshare. Timeshare. No, that, that's, that's exactly. You read my mind, Tim.
Stacey Salyer: but wait, there's
Blake Mohseni: yeah. So, so it feels, it [00:35:00] feels like, it feels like a timeshare pitch, right? Like you're gonna be walked into a room, and then we're gonna be hard pressuring you to, , to sell to us or to do so- Like the, the value is actually purely in the fact that we get to work with property management firms that are in the day-to-day.
We're helping them solve their core problems so that when we're speaking with owners we cannot just say, "Hey, trust us. Our AI is great." It's like, "No, actually, this is, this is the impact that we're driving working with a group just for 60 to 90 days. Imagine if we were locked, locked in at the hip and the resources that we can bring."
And so we come in, we analyze an end-to-end process. , We identify a process with an owner that we're working with. We work directly with their core team. It's ideally how it's set up. We map , and identify where the opportunities are in the process and how AI , can be utilized within that, which is all core things that I've done throughout my career.
And then, we come up with an architecture on how AI can plug into that organization. Our dev team, and I want to be very clear, this is not Blake sitting here vibe coding up solutions for people. Like , we have, production ready engineers that are actually [00:36:00] taking things... Stacy, I want... I feel like you want to say something so I'll pause for a second.
Stacey Salyer: I was just picturing you late at night. That's what you're doing, you know, that's why they
Blake Mohseni: I mean, I, don't get me wrong, I love a little vibe coding action
Tim Wehner: Yeah, he absolutely does do that, but, it's not, that's not what this is. Yeah
Blake Mohseni: Yeah. But my, but , our belief is that especially for solutions that are going to be customer facing, owner facing, vendor facing, employee face- like, they... Employee facing you can have a little bit more flexibility there.
You want it to be production grade software. And so a lot of people are out there, vibe coding solutions, and, and I actually, I'm a firm believer in experimentation and, and being able , to tinker with things. It's just you gotta be careful because you could tell AI to go build you a house, and next thing you know, you got a basement, a third story, and, a sunroom that you weren't anticipating to build on the house.
, And so the lab is , our way of, one, giving back to the industry. Our, name is Rising Tide because we do wanna rise the tide of the entire industry and, and help everyone, grow into this next, chapter of things. [00:37:00] But f- us also, it is a, a way for us to showcase owners , our impact and solutions, and then, and to give us a bookshelf of solutions so that as we make, , acquisitions, we can say, "Hey, we've already solved this in , the vendor, space," or, "We've already solved this in the maintenance space.
We can plug this directly into the, the firm that we're going into." So it's
Stacey Salyer: they...
Blake Mohseni: symbiotic
Stacey Salyer: Yeah. No, I love that, and I love how you kind of came back around to explain the name of your company. That is so cool. 'Cause what is that saying? Rising tide something ships. , What is that saying?
Blake Mohseni: a rising tide raises all boats
Stacey Salyer: Thank you. Thank you. That's very eloquent. , Okay. So with that, with your dev team, are they building agentic AI agents for these companies?
Is that what, what they're doing?
Blake Mohseni: Great, great qualifier. So it actually ties directly back to our broader thesis, which is you don't need a centralized tech stack to be able to utilize , and eke out the productivity gains, or growth that you're looking for within a firm, , by changing over to a point solution or a centralized tech stack.
And [00:38:00] I'm not knocking on any point solutions out there. There are plenty of great vendors that have created great solutions to solve different problems. , But what we can do is we can plug directly into, say, a AppFolio or a Buildium or a Tenant Turner and sit on top of that technology stack and expand the capabilities of that.
Because if you think about what's taking place across all these different point solutions at this point in time, is you have a human that is essentially operating as the interface that's like, "Okay, I need to go from Buildium and I need to then go to, , Tenant Turner. I need to go to these different locations."
And don't get me wrong, like some of them have integrations, but there is still a human that is the conduit between all these different systems. And so what is now available to us is, is,, AI agents can now operate across those systems and do some of the things that human beings were doing before to enable...
And I'm gonna keep coming back to this 'cause we just, we beat the drum on this so hard, is to enable people to focus on the things that actually are sticky within the industry. Like, you don't [00:39:00] need to be going back and forth and moving data between spreadsheets or between systems. We have agents that can do that.
Let's get you on the call and actually acting as a advisor to your owners on what their next couple purchases are gonna be, or where they should potentially divest something in their portfolio, , or how you can continue to coach up your employees. These are the things that create a much more durable business over the long term.
Stacey Salyer: I love it. You're speaking my language. So, and, , since I'm your bestie and once I, , complete my acquisition, I heard that you're gonna help me figure out my AI agent. Mm-hmm. So I'm also
Tim Wehner: I heard that too
Stacey Salyer: in my pretend basement at NARPM.
Blake Mohseni: so, so I, I would love to see w- what you look like when you're vibe coding, late night. I actually just said something to Tim like super late yesterday. , And I was definitely doing that late last night. , But yes, let's have a conversation. We actually have an application on our, website.
We've had, large volume of applications of people that are interested in, in supporting. Like I said, , just due to the [00:40:00] operating costs and being able to support some of these things, we only take two to three members on at any one time, and also my time as well too.
And so we take two to three on every quarter. We have our two selected for this upcoming Q4. Actually meeting with both of them to do the, , initial scoping calls this, this upcoming Thursday and Friday. And as we go into Q1, and as you close your first deal, let's circle back around and let's talk a little bit more what, about what you got shaking.
Stacey Salyer: Yeah, 100%. Well, I'm a planner. I'm gonna go fill out the application when we're done. But anyway, no, no, I love that though. No, and that is really cool. And I think, I mean, I get it too from a very holistic, you know, standpoint. I mean, it helps you build your company as well, because then you are able to acquire and not play catch up all the time.
'Cause I think that is a challenge when you are doing massive acquisition, and I know I'm, I'm sure... I'm not gonna speak for you, Tim, but I know working at Pure, I'm sure it was the same at Evernest. You know, you're adding hundreds of doors a quarter, and I don't [00:41:00] care who you are and how amazing you are, that is really freaking hard.
I mean, it is really hard. And, you know, there's all the armchair quarterbacks in the industry that would sit back and, you know, say shitty things, and it's like, "Okay, well, you try it then." So I love that you
Tim Wehner: That never-- that doesn't sound familiar at all
Stacey Salyer: No, maybe it's not on LinkedIn. No, we know it is. Oh, we know
Tim Wehner: I think it is. I think it is on LinkedIn and Facebook and other places. Yeah,,
Stacey Salyer: anyway, I love that you are, you know, twofold. One, I mean, you are truly helping others in the industry, which I think is important. And I, and I think that's what I really love about the property management industry, , is that we truly are really all collectively trying to better the industry.
, At least I feel like my good friends are. And, , so I... That's what I love about it. So I think that's really
Blake Mohseni: C-can I add one detail?
Stacey Salyer: Yes, please.
Blake Mohseni: Uh, so, for the listeners that are interested in this, if you go to our [00:42:00] website, it's risingtidehq, like headquarters, hq.com. There is a place on, in the header that you can see the lab, you can get more details on it and more context beyond just what we spoke about today and our philosophy.
, And you're welcome to apply there as well too. Just wanted to call that out if there are any interest for the listeners that are, uh,
Stacey Salyer: Yeah. Yeah. We'll make sure it's in the show notes as well. , But I think that's really important too for those that you are acquiring, because that's also peace of mind for people that you are acquiring their businesses, , that you're actually doing what you say you're gonna do and that you have an actual good process too.
Because that... Nobody wants to sell their company and then a year later you're like, "Oh wow, look at that. All my hard work was decimated." So, right? , So before we wrap up, anything else you'd love to share? Anything else on the horizon for Q4 or 2027? -
Blake Mohseni: , One thing I do want to call out is Tim and I are, firm believers in giving back and, and I hope that's come through throughout today's [00:43:00] conversation. , We actually just set up a podcast as well called, , "Good Operators" that you can find on Apple and Spotify, where third episode goes out tomorrow.
, So we, we post, post weekly, and the whole premise of the podcast is to bring great, , great leaders in the space that have been doing, mm, different things across the whole of the industry, share their learning and experience, , and give them a platform to share it more broadly. Stacey, you were actually on there a couple, couple weeks ago.
And so, , if you're interested, please please feel to tune in, , and check out episodes because we're talking about all, all sorts of topics ranging from, , some of the pain points of just operating as a individual owner and trying to scale a business, , down to like what, what sort of tools and technology that can be utilized to help continue to grow your organization.
Stacey Salyer: Yeah. No, I love that. I love another good podcast. So Good Operators is what it's called, and you're on Apple, Spotify. Are, are you on YouTube as well?
Blake Mohseni: That's, that's coming. That's coming.
Stacey Salyer: Okay. Yeah. Oh, no, [00:44:00] that's fair. Trust me, I, I know the marketing game. It is a, it's a beast. That's a whole nother, that's a whole nother episode. We could talk about that. So apple
Blake Mohseni: have you on Good Operators talk about marketing as well too
Tim Wehner: , Yeah, please
Stacey Salyer: I would love to., I, it's actually kind of my, my secret thing. I love marketing. , I am-- I don't teach it officially, but I did in a vendor group a couple months ago, I actually shared, and it was supposed to be a 15-minute spot and ended up being a full hour just on
Blake Mohseni: Ooh. Okay. Sound, sounds like we have our next topic. , Let's
get
Tim Wehner: yeah, I was gonna say,
Stacey Salyer: Yeah, I would love that. Yeah, talking about building a personal brand and all that kind of good stuff and why it's so important, especially in the next couple of years. , Anyway, we'll, we'll save that for your, for your show, your episode,
Blake Mohseni: like you're talking a little about, uh, , AEO , and things being served up, but we'll save that for another co- conversation
Stacey Salyer: Yeah. Well, I'm, I'm so excited you guys, , came on my show. I'm really excited to see what you're doing in the space. Yeah, I look forward to seeing you guys at the [00:45:00] conferences and, , all of your contact information will be in the show notes. So again, if there's any operators out there that are looking to, you know, exit in the near future, 12 months or so, you know, these are great guys to reach out to and just kind of see, like what...
If it's a good match or not. And I think that's one thing that I love to remind sellers is that you also, you hold the power. You can sell to whoever you want and make sure it's a good relationship. It's a win-win for all, so
Blake Mohseni: Well said.
Tim Wehner: 100%. I'd cheer, yeah, I'd cheer that for sure
Stacey Salyer: Yeah. Awesome. Okay. Well
Blake Mohseni: the opportunity. St- Stacey, it's always a good time, , spending time with you, and looking forward to the next hangout at nationals
Stacey Salyer: Yep, absolutely. All right, well, thanks for coming on the show. Have a great day
Blake Mohseni: much
Tim Wehner: Awesome. Yeah, thanks
Outro: Thanks for listening to the Stacey Salyer show. Here's the deal. You can read about acquisitions anywhere, but you can't learn acquisitions from someone who's done it the way I have as a buyer, a seller, and from the corporate side evaluating hundreds of [00:46:00] companies. That's why I need you to subscribe and share this with someone in your network who needs to hear it.
And if this episode landed, leave a five star review. It's how more PM owners find the only acquisition expertise in the space that comes from all sides of the table. And while you're at it, grab my Acquisition Readiness checklist on my website at staceysalyer.com. Then when you're ready to move from Growth Thinking to Growth Building, explore the Built to Acquire program.
Don't leave it on the table. See you on the next episode.
